Head of Procuring Entity

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Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:36 pm

I suggest that to maintain the independence of the Local Sanggunian, the Vice-Governor or Vice-Mayor shall become the HOPE for procurements under their office and utilize the same BAC identified by the GPRA.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:12 pm

Can you point out the specific advantages of assigning the Presiding Officer of the Sanggunian as the Head of Procuring Entity?

From my very little yet diverse experience as an LGU employee, such proposal may lead to further complications and conflicts with both ethics and the LGC itself. pale
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:25 pm

engrjhez wrote:Can you point out the specific advantages of assigning the Presiding Officer of the Sanggunian as the Head of Procuring Entity?

From my very little yet diverse experience as an LGU employee, such proposal may lead to further complications and conflicts with both ethics and the LGC itself. pale

I can only speak of political disadvantage engrjhez. Because the HOPE as the Local Chief Executive Officer may sit on the procurement request (approval of PR's, OBr's and so on) of the Vice-Mayor or to any members of the Local Sanggunian espescially if both of them do not belong to a particular political party. To maintain the "balance of power" I suggest that the Local Vice- Official be the HOPE of their respective turf under the same BAC designated by the LOcal Chief Executive.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:24 pm

tianchon,ruel wrote:I can only speak of political disadvantage engrjhez. Because the HOPE as the Local Chief Executive Officer may sit on the procurement request (approval of PR's, OBr's and so on) of the Vice-Mayor or to any members of the Local Sanggunian espescially if both of them do not belong to a particular political party. To maintain the "balance of power" I suggest that the Local Vice- Official be the HOPE of their respective turf under the same BAC designated by the LOcal Chief Executive.
I don't know of other cities/municipalities but in ours (as the M and the VM belong to the same political party) they may independently sit on their Purchase Requests without conflicts. This means, that requests by the Sanggunian and the VM's Office shall be signed and approved by the VM. The rest shall be to the M. The APP shall be approved by the M. But for every resolution the Sanggunian makes, the VM controls the balance in budgetary allocations. This leads to a conclusion that whether a conflict is existing between the two top leaders, they cannot overthrow each as they both can influence each with their inherent powers. Very Happy
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:06 am

engrjhez wrote, "I don't know of other cities/municipalities but in ours (as the M and the VM belong to the same political party) they may independently sit on their Purchase Requests without conflicts. This means, that requests by the Sanggunian and the VM's Office shall be signed and approved by the VM. The rest shall be to the M. The APP shall be approved by the M. But for every resolution the Sanggunian makes, the VM controls the balance in budgetary allocations. This leads to a conclusion that whether a conflict is existing between the two top leaders, they cannot overthrow each as they both can influence each with their inherent powers. Very Happy"

(Frankly, it doens't happen in our LGU too, but the situation happens in the neighboring LGU's). thAT is why i brought this concern to this forum.

yes. as i have said things will go smoothly if LCE and Vice CE belong to the same political party. But, there are situations where majority of the members of the SP's belong to the party of LCE while the rest including the VCE are not. How can the VCE as a minority party, exercise control over its procurement even if it is in the APP, since the LCE can simply declare the procurement as a "non-priority as of this time" or delay the process in the name of public service.

while, the functions of the VCE includes appointments of regular personnel under its turf, I think it would be wise for the proposed IRR to include the VCE as an "alternate" HOPE for procurements under its Office and the Local SAnggunian. I suggest that the GPPB consider this as a matter of importANCE since it is considered that the Legislative Body like the Local Sanggunian as one of the "co-equal" braNch of the government" just like Congress.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:11 pm

tianchon,ruel wrote:
while, the functions of the VCE includes appointments of regular personnel under its turf, I think it would be wise for the proposed IRR to include the VCE as an "alternate" HOPE for procurements under its Office and the Local SAnggunian. I suggest that the GPPB consider this as a matter of importANCE since it is considered that the Legislative Body like the Local Sanggunian as one of the "co-equal" braNch of the government" just like Congress.
Speaking of the Legislative authority, the best way to describe this dilemma is by quoting the answer of Ms.Shobe from the other topic:
shobe wrote:
I think it’s high time people know the very nature of the GPPB. From my previous readings, the GPPB was created as a quasi-legislative agency with the primary mandate to safeguard and protect the national interest in all matters affecting public procurement. To have the same approve contracts (this is the reason why I don’t agree with EO 423) would, in effect, make the same prone to corruption and bribery. In my opinion, an agency crafting policies must not only be free, but also appear to be free, from corruption and bribery. Likewise, I think mandating agencies to have their SCRB approved by the GPPB will just be another unnecessary bureaucratic layer which would not only make the process even longer, but more dangerously transfer liabilities/accountabilities from one agency to another.
Although of similar power as you pointed out, legislation must be independent of execution. Appointing the Head of the Legislative Body as a Head of Procuring Entity posed more problems on bureaucracy.
Smile
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:18 pm

engrjhez wrote:
Speaking of the Legislative authority, the best way to describe this dilemma is by quoting the answer of Ms.Shobe from the other topic:

shobe wrote:
I think it’s high time people know the very nature of the GPPB. From my previous readings, the GPPB was created as a quasi-legislative agency with the primary mandate to safeguard and protect the national interest in all matters affecting public procurement. To have the same approve contracts (this is the reason why I don’t agree with EO 423) would, in effect, make the same prone to corruption and bribery. In my opinion, an agency crafting policies must not only be free, but also appear to be free, from corruption and bribery. Likewise, I think mandating agencies to have their SCRB approved by the GPPB will just be another unnecessary bureaucratic layer which would not only make the process even longer, but more dangerously transfer liabilities/accountabilities from one agency to another.
Although of similar power as you pointed out, legislation must be independent of execution. Appointing the Head of the Legislative Body as a Head of Procuring Entity posed more problems on bureaucracy.
Smile


well, the way i see it, appointing the local VCE as an alternate HOPE for procurements for "Legislative body" would really lessen bureaucracy, limits the signatories, and make the procurement process faster.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:23 pm

engrjhez wrote:

Speaking of the Legislative authority, the best way to describe this dilemma is by quoting the answer of Ms.Shobe from the other topic:


shobe wrote:
I think it’s high time people know the very nature of the GPPB. From my previous readings, the GPPB was created as a quasi-legislative agency with the primary mandate to safeguard and protect the national interest in all matters affecting public procurement. To have the same approve contracts (this is the reason why I don’t agree with EO 423) would, in effect, make the same prone to corruption and bribery. In my opinion, an agency crafting policies must not only be free, but also appear to be free, from corruption and bribery. Likewise, I think mandating agencies to have their SCRB approved by the GPPB will just be another unnecessary bureaucratic layer which would not only make the process even longer, but more dangerously transfer liabilities/accountabilities from one agency to another.
Although of similar power as you pointed out, legislation must be independent of execution. Appointing the Head of the Legislative Body as a Head of Procuring Entity posed more problems on bureaucracy.
Smile


well, the way i see it, appointing the local VCE as an alternate HOPE on procurements for "Legislative body" would really lessen bureaucracy, limits the signatories, and make the procurement process faster.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:07 pm

tianchon,ruel wrote:well, the way i see it, appointing the local VCE as an alternate HOPE on procurements for "Legislative body" would really lessen bureaucracy, limits the signatories, and make the procurement process faster.
Please clarify: Are you pointing out the independent approval of procurement for the Sanggunian only? or to to the entire Agency?

Let me quote Section 5 of the IRR:

m) Head of the Procuring Entity. Refers to: (i) the head of the agency or body, or his duly authorized official, for NGAs and the constitutional commissions or offices, and branches of government; (ii) the governing board or its duly authorized official, for GOCCs, GFIs and SUCs; or (iii) the local chief executive, for LGUs: Provided, however, That in an agency, department, or office where the procurement is decentralized, the Head of each decentralized unit shall be considered as the head of the procuring entity subject to the limitations and authority delegated by the head of the agency, department, or office.


This particular provision of the GPRA allows decentralization of procurement by department subject to limitations. Although this is allowed, will the LCE give way?
Very Happy
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:14 am

engrjhez wrote:
tianchon,ruel wrote:well, the way i see it, appointing the local VCE as an alternate HOPE on procurements for "Legislative body" would really lessen bureaucracy, limits the signatories, and make the procurement process faster.
Please clarify: Are you pointing out the independent approval of procurement for the Sanggunian only? or to to the entire Agency?

Let me quote Section 5 of the IRR:

m) Head of the Procuring Entity. Refers to: (i) the head of the agency or body, or his duly authorized official, for NGAs and the constitutional commissions or offices, and branches of government; (ii) the governing board or its duly authorized official, for GOCCs, GFIs and SUCs; or (iii) the local chief executive, for LGUs: Provided, however, That in an agency, department, or office where the procurement is decentralized, the Head of each decentralized unit shall be considered as the head of the procuring entity subject to the limitations and authority delegated by the head of the agency, department, or office.


This particular provision of the GPRA allows decentralization of procurement by department subject to limitations. Although this is allowed, will the LCE give way?
Very Happy


yes engrjhez, i am specifically referring to all procurement of the Legislative Body including the Office of the Vice Governor/Mayor. As to the provisions under Sec. 5; I believed that for the HOPE to appoint the Vice Gov/Mayor which is not among his/her political party maybe be hardly possible. This is why i am suggesting to separate an alternate HOPE for the office concerned in the next IRR.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:24 pm

tianchon,ruel wrote:yes engrjhez, i am specifically referring to all procurement of the Legislative Body including the Office of the Vice Governor/Mayor. As to the provisions under Sec. 5; I believed that for the HOPE to appoint the Vice Gov/Mayor which is not among his/her political party maybe be hardly possible. This is why i am suggesting to separate an alternate HOPE for the office concerned in the next IRR.

Unfortunately, engr ruel, it could not be possible to amend that particular definition of the HOPE, in the case of LGUS, only thru the next IRR, without the basis of that definition in R.A. 9184 itself being amended first, to wit:

"Sec. 5. Definition of Terms. x-x-x-

(j) Head of the Procuring Entity – refers to: (i ) the head of the agency or his duly authorized official, for national government agencies; (ii) the governing board or its duly authorized official, for government-owned and/or controlled corporations; or (iii) the local chief executive, for local government units. Provided, That in a department, office or agency where the procurement is decentralized, the Head of each decentralized unit shall be considered as the Head of the Procuring Entity subject to the limitations and authority delegated by the head of the department, office or agency.
"

Engr. ruel may have a point in his proposal. We have to examine some of the specific provisions of the LGC, which were not expressly amended by R.A. 9184, to see his point:

"[i]SECTION 445. Powers, Duties and Compensation.- (a) The vice-mayor shall:
(1) Be the presiding officer of the Sangguniang Bayan and sign all warrants drawn on the municipal treasury for all expenditures appropriated for the operation of the Sangguniang Bayan;
"

x-x-x

"SECTION 344. Certification on, and Approval of, Vouchers. - No money shall be disbursed unless the local budget officer certifies to the existence of appropriation that has been legally made for the purpose, the local accountant has obligated said appropriation, and the local treasurer certifies to the availability of funds for the purpose. Vouchers and payrolls shall be certified to and approved by the head of the department or office who has administrative control of the fund concerned, as to validity, propriety, and legality of the claim involved. Except in cases of disbursements involving regularly recurring administrative expenses such as payrolls for regular or permanent employees, expenses for light, water, telephone and telegraph services, remittances to government creditor agencies such as the GSIS, SSS, LBP, DBP, National Printing Office, Procurement Service of the DBM and others, approval of the disbursement voucher by the local chief executive himself shall be required whenever local funds are disbursed. "

Corollary to the said provisions, the Supreme Court, in the case of Atienza v, Villaroza, G.R. 161081, has spoken that reliance to last underlined clause of Sec. 344 of the LGC "is misplaced": "(t)o rule that it is the Governor who has the authority to approve purchase orders for the supplies, materials or equipment for the operation of the Sangguniang Panlalawigan is misplaced. This clause cannot prevail over the more specific clause of the same provision which provides that “vouchers and payrolls shall be certified to and approved by the head of the department or office who has administrative control of the fund concerned.” The Vice-Governor, as the presiding officer of the Sangguniang Panlalawigan, has administrative control of the funds of the said body. Accordingly, it is the Vice-Governor who has the authority to approve disbursement vouchers for expenditures appropriated for the operation of the Sangguniang Panlalawigan."

The Supreme Court even quoted the COA Manual on NGAS for LGUs, to wit:

"Sec. 39. Approval of Disbursements. – Approval of disbursements by the Local Chief Executive (LCE) himself shall be required whenever local funds are disbursed, except for regularly recurring administrative expenses such as: payrolls for regular or permanent employees, expenses for light, water, telephone and telegraph services, remittances to government creditor agencies such as GSIS, BIR, PHILHEALTH, LBP, DBP, NPO, PS of the DBM and others, where the authority to approve may be delegated. Disbursement vouchers for expenditures appropriated for the operation of the Sanggunian shall be approved by the provincial Vice Governor, the city Vice-Mayor or the municipal Vice-Mayor, as the case may be."

DILG, on the other hand, in its Opinion No. 03 s. 2008 dated February 5, 2008, has opined that "since the Vice-Mayor as Presiding Officer is the head of both the offices of the Vice-Mayor and the Sangguniang Bayan, he/she has the authority to approve disbursement vouchers for expenditures appropriated for its operations."

Given the preceding provisions of the LGC and COA Manual, as well as Supreme Court decision and DILG Opinion, the Vice-Mayor/Vice-Governor may also be considered as the HOPE insofar as procurements of the offices of the Vice-Mayor and the Sanggunian Bayan are concerned from out of the funds appropriated for said offices.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:40 pm

I will have to agree with RDV based on the above mentioned rulings. Unless we amend that particular section of Article I Section 5 declaring the Local Chief Executive as the HOPE, we cannot do anything about it.
tianchon,ruel wrote:
yes engrjhez, i am specifically referring to all procurement of the Legislative Body including the Office of the Vice Governor/Mayor. As to the provisions under Sec. 5; I believed that for the HOPE to appoint the Vice Gov/Mayor which is not among his/her political party maybe be hardly possible. This is why i am suggesting to separate an alternate HOPE for the office concerned in the next IRR.
What the Vice Gov/Mayor could settle for the meantime is to be the HOPE for his/her own department.

Cool
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:38 pm

Thanks RDV (you looked like Wallace) and engrhez (you looked like Neo). I always get "lost in transition" to back up my "evidence", ha ha ha! i just read and remember the gist of what i am reading, that is why i cannot cite what, article, circulars, laws, sections. etc. etc. of the discussion i ran into.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:04 am

It's ok. We oftentimes remember: lines, but not the title; the songs, but not the artists; the formula, but not the principle; the rules, but not the law.

This is the very purpose of this forum - for others to learn what they don't know, and the others share what they knew. This is everyone's "learning school". In the same way the young monk in the movie taught Neo while in Oracle's place:

"There is no spoon..."

Razz
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by msm326 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:12 pm

This forum is very informative to my undertakings as procuring unit head and this issue on ratification validates everything that I am explaining to my colleagues ...very thankful I was able to successfully open this forum
Smile msm
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by akoalive on Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:36 pm

i enjoy and learn from reading your posts. the head of agencies where you belong must be very confident that their procurement activities are done in accordance with the law.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:54 pm

akoalive wrote:i enjoy and learn from reading your posts. the head of agencies where you belong must be very confident that their procurement activities are done in accordance with the law.
Likewise we enjoy answering queries. When we encounter questions, we take it as a new learning because every case is unique. When we don't know the outright answer, we read as ask too. I guess this should be the attitude for all of us involved in the procurement process.

Enjoy and learn. When we seem to enjoy what we are working with, it doesn't seemed like working at all. Very Happy
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:07 am

THis is what RDV provided in the other post of this forum, don't know how to link it in this post.
RDV wrote:The composition of LGU BAC is provided for under Sec. 11.2.2 of IRR-A:

11.2.2. Local Government Units

The BAC shall be composed of one (1) representative each from the regular offices under the Office of the Local Chief Executive such as, but not limited to the following: Office of the Administrator, Budget Office, Legal Office, Engineering Office, General Services Offices. The end user office shall always be represented in the BAC. [u]The Chairman of the BAC shall be at least a third ranking permanent official of the procuring entity[/u]. The members of the BAC shall be personnel occupying plantilla positions of the procuring entity concerned.The local chief executive shall designate the members of the BAC. The members shall elect among themselves who shall act as the Chairman and Vice-Chairman

Here is another meat for the GPPB to consider in the formulation of the new IRR.

To institute more transparency in the procurement for LGU's, the new IRR should directly appoint/designate the 2nd Ranking Permanent Official as the BAC-Chairman which is the Local Vice Mayor or Vice Governor in our case.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:39 pm

ruel wrote:
Here is another meat for the GPPB to consider in the formulation of the new IRR.

To institute more transparency in the procurement for LGU's, the new IRR should directly appoint/designate the 2nd Ranking Permanent Official as the BAC-Chairman which is the Local Vice Mayor or Vice Governor in our case.
...then there's no stopping the councilmen being BAC Members in the future (no offense meant). While I see the participation of those lower than third ranking seemed timely, I had a feel "monopoly" is the name of the game.

By the way, I am replying while inside the membership booth (PICE National Midyear Convention - Bacolod). Are you also here? Very Happy
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by riddler on Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:57 am

engrjhez wrote:
ruel wrote:
Here is another meat for the GPPB to consider in the formulation of the new IRR.

To institute more transparency in the procurement for LGU's, the new IRR should directly appoint/designate the 2nd Ranking Permanent Official as the BAC-Chairman which is the Local Vice Mayor or Vice Governor in our case.
...then there's no stopping the councilmen being BAC Members in the future (no offense meant). While I see the participation of those lower than third ranking seemed timely, I had a feel "monopoly" is the name of the game.

By the way, I am replying while inside the membership booth (PICE National Midyear Convention - Bacolod). Are you also here? Very Happy

It has been used before under RA 7160 engrjhez, 2 members from the Legislative Departments used to be the members of the old PBAC, as amended by the GPRA. What I am suggesting for the GPPB are logical schemes that would harmonize the 2 separate bodies (Executive-Legislative) for LGU's in the spirit of Transparancy. The Vice Mayor shall be the BAC Chairman, while the rest of its member are plantilla positions under the Executive.

I would be much willing to attend the Convention but I did not beat the Plane, puno na daw and sked hanggang BAcolod, but i'll see you around come November pag meron pang convention... Anyway I just been informed yesterday, that the UAP just won their case against the PICE..

The problem with our PICE is that it's officers are laden with government employees which cannot fully support the CE's in the private sector. Unlike in the UAP and other professional organizations na cohesive sila masyado dahil privalety driven sila. sana gawin naman nila na private driven organization ang PICE and support na lang tayo sa program nila, we have nothing to lose naman kasi me trabaho na tayo.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:56 am

ruel wrote:
It has been used before under RA 7160 engrjhez, 2 members from the Legislative Departments used to be the members of the old PBAC, as amended by the GPRA. What I am suggesting for the GPPB are logical schemes that would harmonize the 2 separate bodies (Executive-Legislative) for LGU's in the spirit of Transparancy. The Vice Mayor shall be the BAC Chairman, while the rest of its member are plantilla positions under the Executive.
Ok. That make sense. I have acquire my service to BAC only upon RA.9184 so I am not familiar with the PBAC composition.

ruel wrote:I would be much willing to attend the Convention but I did not beat the Plane, puno na daw and sked hanggang BAcolod, but i'll see you around come November pag meron pang convention... Anyway I just been informed yesterday, that the UAP just won their case against the PICE.

The problem with our PICE is that it's officers are laden with government employees which cannot fully support the CE's in the private sector. Unlike in the UAP and other professional organizations na cohesive sila masyado dahil privalety driven sila. sana gawin naman nila na private driven organization ang PICE and support na lang tayo sa program nila, we have nothing to lose naman kasi me trabaho na tayo.
Grabe ang bulk ng attendees kaya nga loaded lahat ng flights hanggang Sunday. Buti we made advanced bookings kaya la naman naging problem sa flight namin. Sa dami ng umattend, ilan kaya ang concerned sa case vs. UAP? Sa Baguio City nga pala 2009 National Convention and Annual Election in line with Baguio's centennial year (November 26-28, 2009). We in the government have nothing to lose (ika nga). Pero kawawa ang fellow private practicing Civil Engineers natin now. Sad
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:12 pm

Rejoinder: The GPPB already clarified this concern in the issuance of PM-001-2011 that there can only be one (1) HOPE.

http://gppb.topicsolutions.net/t1358-hope-for-lgus-executive-vs-legislative?highlight=HOPE
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by alpha1 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:15 am

Very good discussion indeed, but how about the Notice of Award and the BAC Resolution, will the vice mayor also sign these documents? Our VM is arguing that since he is the one approving the PRs, POs and Vouchers including the checks for disbursement under the Office of the VM and SB, then its just proper that he will also approve the BAC Resolutions and the NOAs of the aforementioned offices.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

Post by accounting on Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:10 pm

the offices under the VM is the one approving the vouchers, PO's and PR's however the BAC resolution and NOAs is to be approved by the HOPE. although the office is under the VM, BAC is not appointed by him and there can never be a replacement to the HOPE. Even the HOPE is on leave on or travel, the BAC resolution should still be approved by the HOPE waiting for his returned to service.
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Re: Head of Procuring Entity

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