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Evaluation of BIDS

Post by dagmars on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:24 pm

can a one peso bid difference among bidders considered a prima pacie evidence that their was collusion among them ? Or How much should be the difference in bids to consider their was collusion among bidders ?
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:05 pm

dagmars wrote:can a one peso bid difference among bidders considered a prima pacie evidence that their was collusion among them ? Or How much should be the difference in bids to consider their was collusion among bidders ?

That could be a telltale sign, but I don't think, alone, that could be considered prima facie evidence of collusion.

You need to have other evidence(s), even circumstancial at that, to support your suspicion. There is no quantification of the differences in bids that could conclusively prove that there is collusion or there is no collusion at all.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by dagmars on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:45 pm

Technically, as an engineer, i believe no estimators can estimate a complete set of plan with a difference of one peso even hundred with other estimators when the given documents are complete sets of plan, scope of works and specifications and the project worth millions. No quantity was given. The bidders are required to submit Bill of quantities in lumpsum or per scope of works supported by detailed estimates for references. Unless otherwise only one person prepare the estimates.

How about, the detailed estimates of the agency is the exactly the same as the one submitted by the bidder in amount, sequence and format ? can this be eyed as collusion ?
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:29 pm

dagmars wrote:Technically, as an engineer, i believe no estimators can estimate a complete set of plan with a difference of one peso even hundred with other estimators when the given documents are complete sets of plan, scope of works and specifications and the project worth millions. No quantity was given. The bidders are required to submit Bill of quantities in lumpsum or per scope of works supported by detailed estimates for references. Unless otherwise only one person prepare the estimates.
As I said, ALONE, the difference of one peso, I believe, could not be considered prima facie evidence. Considering that you mentioned also the Detailed Estimates and the Bill of Quantities, maybe those documents could also support your suspicion and determine more conclusively that there is really collusion.

dagmars wrote:How about, the detailed estimates of the agency is the exactly the same as the one submitted by the bidder in amount, sequence and format ? can this be eyed as collusion ?
It could be considered as possible collusion between the public officials concerned (those handling the detailed estimates of the agency) and the bidder.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:26 am

dagmars wrote:can a one peso bid difference among bidders considered a prima pacie evidence that their was collusion among them ? Or How much should be the difference in bids to consider their was collusion among bidders ?
As an engineer (too), I agree this is a very unusual case, although not entirely impossible. We must consider that every estimator have different margins as applied to the packaged estimate. And in reality, every "real" bidder will drop the estimate of the project as low as possible to win the contract.

Is it a prima facie evidence? Legally NO. But as high as 99.9% I am sure (that is 999 out of 1000 cases) that the littlest material of collusion is there. Very Happy
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by Mikel on Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:13 pm

Proving collusion, for purposes of imposing the penal clause of the law, is very hard to do. the guilt of the parties must be proved beyond reasonable doubt, as this partakes the nature of a criminal offense. Mere conjectures, such as very minuscule difference in pricing or uniformity of sequence and format of the detailed estimates, would not suffice to establish that there is collusion.

I think this one offense, collusion, is one of the hardest thing to prove.

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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by venom.0420 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:52 pm

dagmars wrote:can a one peso bid difference among bidders considered a prima pacie evidence that their was collusion among them ? Or How much should be the difference in bids to consider their was collusion among bidders ?

Hi Dagmars!

In a public bidding, it's almost always probable that there will be differences in bid prices whether in Infra or supply of goods, so I'm wondering why you're asking whether a difference in bid prices will be considered a prima facie evidence of collusion among the bidders. Though I concede that a one-peso difference, specially in Infra, is really unusual. So, my gut feel says, you already notice other indications of collusion to begin with. However, regardless of what we think or what we believe or even what we "know" doesn't matter because in the court of law, what we can "prove" is the only basis of the decision. Maybe atty. shobe can help you on what to do, if you are really determine to pursue your case.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by sunriser431 on Sun May 31, 2009 2:31 pm

different scenario
http://www.gppb.gov.ph/opinions/view_opinion.asp?o_id=342
http://www.gppb.gov.ph/issuances/Circulars/2005/06-2005.pdf

For the procurement of goods it will most likely to happen.Instead of applying the guidelines on circular no. 06-2005(drawing of Lots) To resolve the issues, we apply the principle of divisibility, among the number of company/person/entity.So everybody walks away happy. Smile
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:40 am

sunriser431 wrote:different scenario
http://www.gppb.gov.ph/opinions/view_opinion.asp?o_id=342
http://www.gppb.gov.ph/issuances/Circulars/2005/06-2005.pdf

For the procurement of goods it will most likely to happen.Instead of applying the guidelines on circular no. 06-2005(drawing of Lots) To resolve the issues, we apply the principle of divisibility, among the number of company/person/entity.So everybody walks away happy. Smile

If there is more than one (1) LCRB, even if the goods are divisible, the principle to follow is award to only one using non-discretionary criteria of breaking ties based purely on chance.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:48 pm

RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:different scenario
http://www.gppb.gov.ph/opinions/view_opinion.asp?o_id=342
http://www.gppb.gov.ph/issuances/Circulars/2005/06-2005.pdf

For the procurement of goods it will most likely to happen.Instead of applying the guidelines on circular no. 06-2005(drawing of Lots) To resolve the issues, we apply the principle of divisibility, among the number of company/person/entity.So everybody walks away happy. Smile

If there is more than one (1) LCRB, even if the goods are divisible, the principle to follow is award to only one using non-discretionary criteria of breaking ties based purely on chance.


Sir RDV the reason we adopted the divisibility principle, most of our bidders are from out of town and no representative to witness tie breaking methods. Can we still adopt this method without violating the GPRA? bounce
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:08 pm

sunriser431 wrote:Sir RDV the reason we adopted the divisibility principle, most of our bidders are from out of town and no representative to witness tie breaking methods. Can we still adopt this method without violating the GPRA? bounce

You have to inform the bidders who were tied as LCRB about the result and that you are inviteing them on a specific date and time, irst, to agree on how to break that tie using non-discretionary criteria and, second, to break that tie. If they are interested they will come, if not, then lesser problem for you.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by sunriser431 on Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:27 pm

Sir RDV . If the principle of Divisibility cannot be applied, and the use non discretionary is not feasible (circular 06-2005) is it safe for the BAC to declare the Bid a failure and conduct another bidding?
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by akoalive on Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:33 pm

good morning!
i have a question:
is it acceptable (or legal?) to break the tie by requiring the bidders who offered the same bid, to submit another set of financial envelope containing offer for the item where they previously offered the same bid?
can this be considered non-discretionary?
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:33 pm

sunriser431 wrote:Sir RDV . If the principle of Divisibility cannot be applied, and the use non discretionary is not feasible (circular 06-2005) is it safe for the BAC to declare the Bid a failure and conduct another bidding?

Failure of Bidding may only happen under any of the situations mentioned under Sec. 35 and 41 of IRR-A.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:37 pm

akoalive wrote:good morning!
i have a question:
is it acceptable (or legal?) to break the tie by requiring the bidders who offered the same bid, to submit another set of financial envelope containing offer for the item where they previously offered the same bid?
can this be considered non-discretionary?

I dont think that would fall under the guidelines on tie-breaking issued by the GPPB which is supposed to be based purely on chance.
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Re: Evaluation of BIDS

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:38 am

We use this provision in GAAM volume 1, maybe thats the reason why the Resident Auditor did not issue any Audit observation. Very Happy

Sec. 435 Rule on awards xxxxxx
Contract shall be generally awarded to the most advantageous offer. The following factors, among others, shall be considered in making award.
a. xxxx
b. xxxx
Division of award may be made only in either of the following
a. In case of tie offers and the supplies are divisble, the award may be devided as equally as practicable unless the interest of the service demands that it should be given to only one dealer. Cool
b.xxxx
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