about financial documents

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about financial documents

Post by randy on Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:31 pm

Is it eligible that in the financial proposal of the bidding documents, the Price of the Bid Form and the price in the attached price quotation are different?
For example: The bid form has an amount of 1M and signed by their president and letterhead, but in their attached price quotation is 500T.
In other words... They have 2 prices in their financial proposal. Is it possible that they will pass on financial proposal? I thought there are no alternative bid? Can somebody give me an advise... Thnx!

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Re: about financial documents

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:38 am

randy wrote:Is it eligible that in the financial proposal of the bidding documents, the Price of the Bid Form and the price in the attached price quotation are different?...
I will assume this is a PUBLIC BIDDING proceeding (and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is leading to a single bidder, right?). If so, then the latter shall prevail. The Bid Form (as part of the Bidding Documents) is a more valid undertaking of the bidder in terms of financial proposal. The submission of price quotation, although will confuse everyone, really has no participation as to compliance of documents. However, if the price quotation, as you said explicitly pertains to the same goods or services being bidded, the BAC must take a careful examination on how such document "really" reflect the actual pricings. The may be two cases at least:

    [1] The price quotation refers to "n" lots while the Bid Form is in "2n" (or twice the quantity) lots; or,
    [2] The price quotation is the actual market price, and the bid in the Bid Form is a "bloated" amount to make it nearest to the ABC (where a collusion may be slowly taking place).
Until a more elaborate detail is disclosed, we cannot give a specific response on this matter. Laughing
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:33 am

Yes sir this is a public bidding. The BAC and legal advisers of the procuring entity said which ever is the lower price in the financial documents is the one that they will accept and there is a new rules and regulation from GPPB about this issue. Is it true bidders can offer 2 prices? It means that even though the price in the bid form is 1M and their attached price quotation 500T, they will accept the 500T? So it means that they can disregard the price in the bid form?

Thanks Sir engrjhez for your reply...

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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:37 pm

randy wrote:Yes sir this is a public bidding. The BAC and legal advisers of the procuring entity said which ever is the lower price in the financial documents is the one that they will accept and there is a new rules and regulation from GPPB about this issue. Is it true bidders can offer 2 prices? It means that even though the price in the bid form is 1M and their attached price quotation 500T, they will accept the 500T? So it means that they can disregard the price in the bid form?

Thanks Sir engrjhez for your reply...

NO, bidders cannot offer 2 prices. Alternative bids shall not be accepted. If there is discrepancy in the bids, the rules in case of discrepancy, during Bid Evaluation, shall be applied by the BAC.
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Re: about financial documents

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:49 pm

randy wrote:Yes sir this is a public bidding. The BAC and legal advisers of the procuring entity said which ever is the lower price in the financial documents is the one that they will accept and there is a new rules and regulation from GPPB about this issue. Is it true bidders can offer 2 prices? It means that even though the price in the bid form is 1M and their attached price quotation 500T, they will accept the 500T? So it means that they can disregard the price in the bid form?

Thanks Sir engrjhez for your reply...
Where did you get this info? The rules on discrepancy was there even before the GPRA became a law. But there are no such rules where the bidder may compete with himself. Hindi pwede yung dalawa ang bid, na pag walang lumaban, 1M and pag me kalaban 500k? Based on your story, it seems only one (1) bidder participated. Please confirm this.

One thing more, a careful argument must be considered because the bid must be stated in the Bid Form provided by BAC (as part of the bidding documents purchased by the bidder). If for the sake of technicality, pwedeng ikatwiran ng bidder na naligaw lang yung price quotation nya kasi yung Bid Form naman talaga ang valid (unless dalawa ung Bid Form). How do you deal with that?

If the BAC sees further complication on this, and the issue had reached the desk of the HOPE, the bidding may be annuled at anytime by virtue of the Reservation Clause (if the case qualifies). I will have to advise this to be declared a FAILURE for re-bidding, to make a clean start all over again.

But that's just me. Very Happy
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:26 pm

Sir there are 2 bidders qualified in eligibility, technical and finacial, bidder "A" and bidder "B" but the financial document of bidder "A" has 2 price proposal. 1M in Bid Form and 500k in price quotation. Sabi kc nung BAC and legal adviser pwede daw yung 2 prices kahit daw nagka typographical error. Pero ang valid daw yung mas mababa na price sa financial documents at may nilabas daw na rules and regulation ang gppb about sa ganitong issue. <--I dont know if this is true.

Of course bidder "B" will disagree for that! And they ask the BAC which document is legal? Bid Form or the attached price quotation. They said again that the lowest price in financial documents will be accepted. The bid form will be invalid bec. price quotation has a lower price. <-- Kaya im always asking na kung pwede 2 prices in a Financial documents kc ngayon lng ako naka encounter ng ganito.

Sa financial document ng bidder "A" kc may bid form na 1M, letterhead and sign by their signatory. Tpos sa likod yung price quotation na 500T may letterhead and sign din ng siganatory nila. Very confusing yung financial document nila and may mga errors but why the BAC accept their bid instead of disqualifying them?

Thanks again for the reply Mr. engrjhez and Mr. RDV!

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Re: about financial documents

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:42 pm

randy wrote:Of course bidder "B" will disagree for that! And they ask the BAC which document is legal? Bid Form or the attached price quotation. They said again that the lowest price in financial documents will be accepted. The bid form will be invalid bec. price quotation has a lower price. <-- Kaya im always asking na kung pwede 2 prices in a Financial documents kc ngayon lng ako naka encounter ng ganito.
Talagang magrereklamo ako kung ako yung bidder B. Paano kung ang bid ko ay 700T? Matatalo ako dahil dalawa bid price ng Bidder A?

Again, I would like to emphasize that we knew not any rule issued by the GPPB in submitting alternative bids (anyone?). The supposed rule of thumb is always "to choose what bid is the most advantageous to the government". But in enforcing a legal remedy, Bidder B may have a valid opposition on the matter. Smile
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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:49 pm

engrjhez wrote:
randy wrote:Of course bidder "B" will disagree for that! And they ask the BAC which document is legal? Bid Form or the attached price quotation. They said again that the lowest price in financial documents will be accepted. The bid form will be invalid bec. price quotation has a lower price. <-- Kaya im always asking na kung pwede 2 prices in a Financial documents kc ngayon lng ako naka encounter ng ganito.
Talagang magrereklamo ako kung ako yung bidder B. Paano kung ang bid ko ay 700T? Matatalo ako dahil dalawa bid price ng Bidder A?

Again, I would like to emphasize that we knew not any rule issued by the GPPB in submitting alternative bids (anyone?). The supposed rule of thumb is always "to choose what bid is the most advantageous to the government". But in enforcing a legal remedy, Bidder B may have a valid opposition on the matter. Smile

THERE IS SUCH A RULE AGAINST ALTERNATIVE BIDS.

Philippine Bidding Documents, Procurement of Goods, Instructions to Bidders, Sec. 17 has a provision on Alternative Bids:

"17. Alternative Bids
17.1. Alternative Bids shall be rejected."

The BAC action should be to disqualify the bidder based on the said ITB clause.
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Re: about financial documents

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:10 pm

engrjhez wrote:Again, I would like to emphasize that we knew not any rule issued by the GPPB in submitting alternative bids (anyone?). The supposed rule of thumb is always "to choose what bid is the most advantageous to the government". But in enforcing a legal remedy, Bidder B may have a valid opposition on the matter. Smile
What I meant was "a rule on allowing alternative bids". Anyway, there we have it - straightforward. Let's apply it. Very Happy
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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:18 pm

engrjhez wrote:
engrjhez wrote:Again, I would like to emphasize that we knew not any rule issued by the GPPB in submitting alternative bids (anyone?). The supposed rule of thumb is always "to choose what bid is the most advantageous to the government". But in enforcing a legal remedy, Bidder B may have a valid opposition on the matter. Smile [/justify]
What I meant was "a rule on allowing alternative bids". Anyway, there we have it - straightforward. Let's apply it. Very Happy
The rule (in the ITB) is already VERY CATEGORICAL: Alternative bids SHALL BE REJECTED, therefore, they could not be allowed. Pls don't look for any rule allowing alternative bids because there could not be.
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:53 pm

Medyo nalilito rin kc ako kc ginawa ko ring dahilan yung alternative bids are not allowed but the BAC said that it is not an alternative bid. Tpos mapupunta nanaman usapan namin sa 2 prices ng finacial documents... pa ikot ikot lng pinag uusapan namin.

By the way, kmi yung bidder "B". Sa dami na nang nasalihan namin ng bidding, private or public bidding ngayon ko lng na encounter to.

Thanks for the reply Mr. engrjhez and Mr. RDV! God bless!

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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:23 pm

randy wrote:Sir there are 2 bidders qualified in eligibility, technical and finacial, bidder "A" and bidder "B" but the financial document of bidder "A" has 2 price proposal. 1M in Bid Form and 500k in price quotation. Sabi kc nung BAC and legal adviser pwede daw yung 2 prices kahit daw nagka typographical error. Pero ang valid daw yung mas mababa na price sa financial documents at may nilabas daw na rules and regulation ang gppb about sa ganitong issue. <--I dont know if this is true.

That is NOT TRUE.

randy wrote:Of course bidder "B" will disagree for that! And they ask the BAC which document is legal? Bid Form or the attached price quotation. They said again that the lowest price in financial documents will be accepted. The bid form will be invalid bec. price quotation has a lower price. <-- Kaya im always asking na kung pwede 2 prices in a Financial documents kc ngayon lng ako naka encounter ng ganito.

Sa financial document ng bidder "A" kc may bid form na 1M, letterhead and sign by their signatory. Tpos sa likod yung price quotation na 500T may letterhead and sign din ng siganatory nila. Very confusing yung financial document nila and may mga errors but why the BAC accept their bid instead of disqualifying them?

You can always file a motion for reconsideration.

By the way, are you aware of what is the justification of Bidder "A" for the 2 prices, both of which are signed by their authorized official?
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:54 pm

By the way, are you aware of what is the justification of Bidder "A" for the 2 prices, both of which are signed by their authorized official?[/quote]



They only said that it is a typographical error.

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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:07 pm

randy wrote:By the way, are you aware of what is the justification of Bidder "A" for the 2 prices, both of which are signed by their authorized official?

They only said that it is a typographical error.

P1,000,000 vs. P500,000 and typographical error ang dahilan? There 6 zeros and 2 commas in the first, against five zeros and one comma in the other.

What about the amount in words? Typographical error, my foot. Shocked Shocked
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Re: about financial documents

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:42 pm

Randy,

Can you elaborate further what was bidded? Goods? Services? Nakaka-intriga eh. For discussion purposes lang naman. jocolor
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:16 pm

Supply of labor and materials of equipments... Hndi ko na sir sabihin yung buong title at procuring entity baka kc maging issue. I just want to know na baka ako ang mali at sila ang tama (Maliwanagan kung baga), but can't comeup with their reasons kc ngayon lng ako naka encounter na 2 prices...

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Re: about financial documents

Post by venom.0420 on Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:02 pm

randy wrote:Supply of labor and materials of equipments... Hndi ko na sir sabihin yung buong title at procuring entity baka kc maging issue. I just want to know na baka ako ang mali at sila ang tama (Maliwanagan kung baga), but can't comeup with their reasons kc ngayon lng ako naka encounter na 2 prices...

Hmm.. I don't want to be presumptuous, but I smell something fishy in ur case Randy. It may be intentional on the part of the said bidder. But the price difference is too alarming. Just like RDV said, typo error my a:evil: Evil or Very Mad .

Nwei, to answer ur query-it is normal to put ur bid price in the bid form or quotation form included in the bid docs that u purchased. What u put in there becomes ur official financial bid. Some procuring entity in procuring Job Orders and Work Orders will also require as an attachment to this quotation form, a detailed cost estimate, that reveals how you arrive or what are the components of ur total bid price. If there is a variance between the totals of the two, the former will prevail. Is this what happen in ur case? But it is almost impossible that these two documents will have a variance of Php 500k.

If I were you I'll follow RDV's advise and file a written request for reconsideration and emphasize the "error" that they committed during the bidding. If no action was taken, or ur request was denied, you can file a written protest to their head of procuring entity. Maybe RDV can elaborate on this one. Ala pa kasi kaming experience in handling written protests.
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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri May 01, 2009 2:08 pm

venom.0420 wrote:
If I were you I'll follow RDV's advise and file a written request for reconsideration and emphasize the "error" that they committed during the bidding. If no action was taken, or ur request was denied, you can file a written protest to their head of procuring entity. Maybe RDV can elaborate on this one. Ala pa kasi kaming experience in handling written protests.

As a bidder, Randy's company is entitled to administrative remedies, in the following order:

1. File a Motion for Reconsideration with the BAC within 3 calendar days (unfortunately, this may have already lapsed) from verbal notification or, if not present during bid opening, from receipt of written notice. Of course, in the case of Randy's co., if he/representative is present during bid opening, within 3 c.d. from that bid opening day upon finding that Bidder B was not disqualified for submitted "alternative bids" or two (2) bid prices despite their protestations;

2. Then, file a Protest with the HOPE within 7 c.d. from receipt of the BAC's denial of the Motion for Reconsideration. The Protest must be verified (by a Notary Public) accompanied by a unrefundable protest fee equivalent to 1% of the ABC. The HOPE may exercise his rights under Sec. 41 of RA 9184 by denying the recommendation of the BAC or by declaring a failure of bidding.

Even if Bidder B has been declared the LCRB, they cannot make an award until the procuring entity is able to resolve any pending MR or Protest.

It is only after the Protest has been denied by the HOPE can the aggrieved bidder (Randy's co.) go the court to file for the appropriate relief, otherwise, the court will only dismiss your case for lack of jurisdiction (Sec. 58 of RA 9184).
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Fri May 01, 2009 2:46 pm

Ok Mr. RDV! I've already filed a motion for reconsideration about the discrepancy of two prices with the BAC the day after the bid opening. Nakakuha rin ako sa inyo at sa ibang nag post ng idea...

Yes Mr.Venom i agree with you. Sana lang maging fair sila! I'll just wait kung ano kalalabasan tpos post ko dito.

Buti na lng palagi kayo online Mr. engrjhez, Mr. RDV and Mr. Venom. Thanks a lot!!!

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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Wed May 06, 2009 5:24 pm

Reply of Procuring Entity

As you have prepared your bid judiciously to conform to the requirements, we presumed that you have across the Bid Data Sheet, specifically on the ITB Clause no 34.2, to wit:
The Lowest Calculated Bid shall be determined in two steps:

a. The detailed evaluation of the financial component of the bid, to established the correct calculated prices of the bids;
b. The ranking of the total bid prices as so calculated from the lowest to highest. The bid with the lowest price shall be identified as the lowest calculated bid.

We need not discuss what we meant lengthily since the said provision is self-explanatory. It was established that "Bidder A" made a typographical error in their bid form as it reflected the exact Approved Budget for the Contract, however, they were very keen on correcting said mistake by voicing out the same immediately and substantiating it with the detailed cost estimates. We have already explained that the Bid Form and Detailed Cost Estimate compliments each other, as the form was intended to be a summary (front page) for the cost estimate. If the Bid Form contains typographical errors, the detailed cost estimate should prevail since as provided for in the rules, the lowest calculated bid shall determine by the detailed evaluation, referring to the cost estimate; to establish correct calculated prices.

You also passed upon the issue of technicality herein, but there was not even a single procedure violated. May we state further that the BAC do disqualify bidders if they did not comply with the procedure or submit documents as mandated by RA no. 9184, but in this case, we find no violation and "Bidder A" tendered a complete bid submission.

So it means it is ok for the BAC to accept typographical error specially on financial documents? Kahit nman mag voice out yung other bidder and magbigay sila ng excuses nila hndi na dapat nila tanggapin yun kc false information ang nilagay nila. So it means na mag pprevail yung cost estimate nila (Price Quotation) instead of Bid Form?

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Re: about financial documents

Post by riddler on Thu May 07, 2009 10:07 am

I think the problem lies with the Procuring Entity RDV. They must have forgot to sell the PBD to the Bidders. THe PBD consists of IEAB, ITB, GCC,SCC,BDS, notwithstanding the instructions on how to prepare bids, time and delivery, requirements of the bids, specifications, and others, including the clause you mentioned on alternative bids (which is not allowed anyway). if only the procuring entity have sold this to the bidder, wala sana problema.

Mr. GPPB, i-seminar nyo naman kami/sila about the nature Philippine Bidding Documents (PBD) oh! I truly believed most and most and most LGU here in RP is blind about this. Even the ACronyms are nakakalokah! Ha Ha Ha!

Di lang kasi dapat "pro-forma" documents ang ibenta ng Procuriing Entity sa prospective bidders, dapat pati PBD para halos lahat ng tanong ng Bidders eh andun na mismo sa PBD.
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Thu May 07, 2009 11:28 am

Sir yung bid docs nila consist of Checklist, Invitation to bid, ITB, GSS, Sample Form, BDS, Bid Bulletin, SCC and Scope of work. Parehas din yung mga forms and documents na makikita d2 GPPB.

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Re: about financial documents

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu May 07, 2009 1:43 pm

randy wrote:So it means it is ok for the BAC to accept typographical error specially on financial documents? Kahit nman mag voice out yung other bidder and magbigay sila ng excuses nila hndi na dapat nila tanggapin yun kc false information ang nilagay nila. So it means na mag pprevail yung cost estimate nila (Price Quotation) instead of Bid Form?

It is the BAC's call and, yes, the BAC can accept reasonings due to typographical errors, if it is really one. During the evaluation of bids, one of the rules is in cases of discrepancy. Discrepancies can occur because of typographical errorr. However, mistakes caused by carelessless should be given lessons by the BAC by disallowing them, if only to teach bidders the lesson that they should be careful in preparing their bids. However, as I said it is the BAC's call. I think, the detailed estimate should prevail since it is the detail which supports the bid price.
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Re: about financial documents

Post by riddler on Thu May 07, 2009 3:58 pm

you are right RDV. I think the BAC should declare the Bidder with (2) different quotations as failed bidder.. Non-discretionary kasi sa part ng BAC yung pipili pa sila kung sino sa dalawang price quotation of the same bidder ang kukunin baka ma abused ito ng mga bidders. If the Bidder purchased the PBD, then Sec. 17.1 as pointed by RDV should be upheld by the BAC. Pag malabo kasi presentation sa BAC there is no way but to fail the bidder. LESSON LEARNED..
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Re: about financial documents

Post by randy on Fri May 08, 2009 11:48 am

^ yup i agree Mr. ruel t. Unfair nman kc yun kung i-accept pa nila. Baka abusuhin nga naman ng ibang bidder! Kawawa yung mga bagong saling bidder...

Anyway wala na kmi magagawa kung yun ang decision ng BAC then we have no choice. May evaluation pa naman sa technical. Kaso kung sa bid opening pa lng may prob. na hndi na kmi siguro aasa sa evaluation ng technical.

Sana lng yung mga naka basa nito eh magkaroon ng lesson at baka may ma encounter din kayong ganitong situation.

Thnx po sa mga nag relply Mr. engrjhez, Mr. RDV, Mr. Venom and Mr. ruel t.

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