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Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

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Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:29 am

This is a special case expounding this thread >>> http://gppb.topicsolutions.net/t1610-brand-names-in-procuring-of-goods#10301

Now, suppose the bidder complied with the specifications and included items in their proposal without any reference to brand name too. Will this be allowed? If it will be allowed, then there will still be no brand names indicated in the PO. Is this acceptable?

If a bidder on the other hand, indicated a brand name, and then failed to deliver that specific brand name but the specs of the proposed new item is equal or more superior to that of their bid: will this be acceptable? If not what would be the next step?

If there is an annual exam for "procurement proficiency and competency", this is one possible question. Smile

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:56 am

engrjhez® wrote:
This is a special case expounding this thread >>> http://gppb.topicsolutions.net/t1610-brand-names-in-procuring-of-goods#10301

Now, suppose the bidder complied with the specifications and included items in their proposal without any reference to brand name too. Will this be allowed? If it will be allowed, then there will still be no brand names indicated in the PO. Is this acceptable?

If a bidder on the other hand, indicated a brand name, and then failed to deliver that specific brand name but the specs of the proposed new item is equal or more superior to that of their bid: will this be acceptable? If not what would be the next step?

If there is an annual exam for "procurement proficiency and competency", this is one possible question. Smile


I think it would still be acceptable for the following reasons:
1) The specs of the procuring entity did not indicate brand name (as it is prohibited anyway);
2) The offer by the bidder of the brand name was not the reason for the award, but its compliance with the specs and having been declared the lowest calculated responsive bid;
3) The winning bidder has justifiable reason why it is unable to deliver the brand it has promised; and
4) The replacement item has equal or more superior specs and terms than the one previously offered and there will be no change in the contract amount.
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:13 pm

Thanks for the reply, RDV.

On the case where no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier, it is but logical not to indicate a "brand name" also in the PO. Then came the COA who question why no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier. We (in the BAC) insisted that we cannot fail a bidder who do not include brand name themselves (the way we PEs do) and we do not find it as a ground for DQ. Yet, the COA may have a point.

Are we correct to assume that it would be the GSO or End User's part to check and indicate what "brand name" was delivered and accepted? following what was awarded thru contract and PO (which has no brand name)? Smile
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:41 pm

engrjhez® wrote:
Thanks for the reply, RDV.

On the case where no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier, it is but logical not to indicate a "brand name" also in the PO. Then came the COA who question why no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier. We (in the BAC) insisted that we cannot fail a bidder who do not include brand name themselves (the way we PEs do) and we do not find it as a ground for DQ. Yet, the COA may have a point.

Are we correct to assume that it would be the GSO or End User's part to check and indicate what "brand name" was delivered and accepted? following what was awarded thru contract and PO (which has no brand name)? Smile

Did you specifically mention in the RFQ/specs that the offer should be branded? If you did not, then the supplier is not obligated to indicate the brand also in its offer.
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:12 pm

RDV @ GP3i wrote:
engrjhez® wrote:
Thanks for the reply, RDV.

On the case where no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier, it is but logical not to indicate a "brand name" also in the PO. Then came the COA who question why no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier. We (in the BAC) insisted that we cannot fail a bidder who do not include brand name themselves (the way we PEs do) and we do not find it as a ground for DQ. Yet, the COA may have a point.

Are we correct to assume that it would be the GSO or End User's part to check and indicate what "brand name" was delivered and accepted? following what was awarded thru contract and PO (which has no brand name)? Smile

Did you specifically mention in the RFQ/specs that the offer should be branded? If you did not, then the supplier is not obligated to indicate the brand also in its offer.

No, we did not mention anything about brands. That is why I am wondering why the COA asks for that specific details. We argued that the BAC cannot disqualify bidders just because no brands were specified by the bidders (since we do not actually prefer brands and indication of it as part of the requirements). Smile
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:04 pm

engrjhez® wrote:
RDV @ GP3i wrote:
engrjhez® wrote:
Thanks for the reply, RDV.

On the case where no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier, it is but logical not to indicate a "brand name" also in the PO. Then came the COA who question why no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier. We (in the BAC) insisted that we cannot fail a bidder who do not include brand name themselves (the way we PEs do) and we do not find it as a ground for DQ. Yet, the COA may have a point.

Are we correct to assume that it would be the GSO or End User's part to check and indicate what "brand name" was delivered and accepted? following what was awarded thru contract and PO (which has no brand name)? Smile

Did you specifically mention in the RFQ/specs that the offer should be branded? If you did not, then the supplier is not obligated to indicate the brand also in its offer.

No, we did not mention anything about brands. That is why I am wondering why the COA asks for that specific details. We argued that the BAC cannot disqualify bidders just because no brands were specified by the bidders (since we do not actually prefer brands and indication of it as part of the requirements). Smile

Of course you cannot mention anything about brands as we all know that it is specifically prohibited under Sec. 18 of RA 9184. But it is not prohibited to put the term 'branded' in your specs, without specifying the brand, of course. That way, the offerror has to mention the brand in its offer.
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Incomplete Bid proposal

Post by Sunshadow on Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:58 pm

Greetings!
Is failure to indicate the packing, brand and country of origin in the bid proposals submitted by a bidder a ground for DQ or such proposasl be considered as non responsive by the procuring entity or BAC. FYI, in our ITB regarding BID PRICES it was stated there that " The Bidder shall complete the appropriate Price schedules included herein, stating the unit price per item, the total amount and the EXPECTED COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN of the GOODS to be supplied under the Contract ". Can we file a protest to the BAC that such bid proposals should not be included in the evaluation and treated as NON-RESPONSIVE? Thanks!

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by the fireman on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:41 am

RDV @ GP3i wrote:
engrjhez® wrote:
RDV @ GP3i wrote:
engrjhez® wrote:
Thanks for the reply, RDV.

On the case where no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier, it is but logical not to indicate a "brand name" also in the PO. Then came the COA who question why no "brand name" is indicated by the supplier. We (in the BAC) insisted that we cannot fail a bidder who do not include brand name themselves (the way we PEs do) and we do not find it as a ground for DQ. Yet, the COA may have a point.

Are we correct to assume that it would be the GSO or End User's part to check and indicate what "brand name" was delivered and accepted? following what was awarded thru contract and PO (which has no brand name)? Smile

Did you specifically mention in the RFQ/specs that the offer should be branded? If you did not, then the supplier is not obligated to indicate the brand also in its offer.

No, we did not mention anything about brands. That is why I am wondering why the COA asks for that specific details. We argued that the BAC cannot disqualify bidders just because no brands were specified by the bidders (since we do not actually prefer brands and indication of it as part of the requirements). Smile

Of course you cannot mention anything about brands as we all know that it is specifically prohibited under Sec. 18 of RA 9184. But it is not prohibited to put the term 'branded' in your specs, without specifying the brand, of course. That way, the offerror has to mention the brand in its offer.

sir, what do you mean on the last paragraph? is there such a way that we could include brand names in order for us to get what we really want? i mean tires for our firetrucks. what we really want are michelin tires, for it is known for its durability. we put its specs in the ITB. what the supplier delivered are china-made tires with same specs as michelin. the tires delivered are threat to the lives of the firemen driving a high-speed vehicle and the pedestrians. hope you could help..

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by jcolas on Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:43 am

"Sir RDV wrote"

Of course you cannot mention anything about brands as we all know that it is specifically prohibited under Sec. 18 of RA 9184. But it is not prohibited to put the term 'branded' in your specs, without specifying the brand, of course. That way, the offerror has to mention the brand in its offer.
This simply means, if I may add my voice, that as posted by Sir RDV, PE's are not allowed to specifically mention the brand, but we are allowed to indicate in our RFQ's that we want an item that is branded. In this case, the bidders will now offer us branded items. In this case the PE is given the chance to select among all offers the brand they deem to be the best. In your post sir fireman, your BAC could have selected other brands except China. If in the first posting, that is the only offer that was given to you. you are not obliged to accept it. You can again post until you can have an offer that is to your satisfaction. I hope I have not muddled the issue.
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by the fireman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:03 am

jcolas wrote:"Sir RDV wrote"

Of course you cannot mention anything about brands as we all know that it is specifically prohibited under Sec. 18 of RA 9184. But it is not prohibited to put the term 'branded' in your specs, without specifying the brand, of course. That way, the offerror has to mention the brand in its offer.
This simply means, if I may add my voice, that as posted by Sir RDV, PE's are not allowed to specifically mention the brand, but we are allowed to indicate in our RFQ's that we want an item that is branded. In this case, the bidders will now offer us branded items. In this case the PE is given the chance to select among all offers the brand they deem to be the best. In your post sir fireman, your BAC could have selected other brands except China. If in the first posting, that is the only offer that was given to you. you are not obliged to accept it. You can again post until you can have an offer that is to your satisfaction. I hope I have not muddled the issue.

does it mean that we have to declare a bidding a failure, simply because the offer made is not the brand we want? is this legal? the bidder always fight for their right that they follow the specs. thanks so much for the kind reply. we are really binded by this rule on "no brand" RFQ, which in the long run, i believe is disadvantage on the government side. the last fire truck procurement we had is a mess. what we bought are locally assembled, ineffective firetrucks. simply because they have the same specs. ford firetrucks which have same specs with locally-assembled firetrucks are more expensive at PhP3m higher than its nearest competitor. quality branded equipment always command higher price than low-quality items. yet, they have same specs.

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:19 am

the fireman wrote:
jcolas wrote:"Sir RDV wrote"

Of course you cannot mention anything about brands as we all know that it is specifically prohibited under Sec. 18 of RA 9184. But it is not prohibited to put the term 'branded' in your specs, without specifying the brand, of course. That way, the offerror has to mention the brand in its offer.
This simply means, if I may add my voice, that as posted by Sir RDV, PE's are not allowed to specifically mention the brand, but we are allowed to indicate in our RFQ's that we want an item that is branded. In this case, the bidders will now offer us branded items. In this case the PE is given the chance to select among all offers the brand they deem to be the best. In your post sir fireman, your BAC could have selected other brands except China. If in the first posting, that is the only offer that was given to you. you are not obliged to accept it. You can again post until you can have an offer that is to your satisfaction. I hope I have not muddled the issue.

does it mean that we have to declare a bidding a failure, simply because the offer made is not the brand we want? is this legal? the bidder always fight for their right that they follow the specs. thanks so much for the kind reply. we are really binded by this rule on "no brand" RFQ, which in the long run, i believe is disadvantage on the government side. the last fire truck procurement we had is a mess. what we bought are locally assembled, ineffective firetrucks. simply because they have the same specs. ford firetrucks which have same specs with locally-assembled firetrucks are more expensive at PhP3m higher than its nearest competitor. quality branded equipment always command higher price than low-quality items. yet, they have same specs.

I understand your sentiments on this dilemma. But you should also understand dura lex sed lex (the law may be harsh but it is still the law). That is why we are emphasized to "meticulously and judiciously" prepare our procurement plans. A market study is really indispensable. You have to know more of the performance specifications and other parameters that is best suited to your needs. You just dont refer to performance by the brand it carries but from the intended use, we draw our specs.

Going back to the concern, RDV is pointing out to use the term "branded" as part of the specs (i.e. the item must be branded so that its source and identity could be ascertained). One example is when you procure desktop computers. There so many brands available in the market such as HP, Acer, Lenovo, etc.

These product brands contain specs that a generic or assembled PC could attain at a very low price.
But does it have a brand?
No.

Do we mention any brand?
No.

Can we reject a brand we do not prefer?
No.

This only means that only products registered with a specific brand can be compliant. An assembled PC does not have that. But of course that is just one classic example yet that can be extended to your case. Smile
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by the fireman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:08 am

to sir engrjhez®,

to give you a background with hopes that you can better appreciate our plight, we published the ITB based on the assumption that we can have michelin tires. a reliable and durable brand but with higher price. thus, we computed the ABC with it as basis. its average current market price is 17,000.00/pc. however, the supplier delivered a china-made one with current market price of 13,500/pc. in his bid, 14,500/pc. we all know that this world is full of trickery but this rule on no branding are helping these "bad" suppliers squeezing money from the government. the bid they offered is even higher than buying it in your suking tindahan. any opinion on this, gurus? sama lang talaga ng loob namin dito. delikado talaga ang china-made tires para sa high-speed vehicles..

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:16 am

the fireman wrote:to sir engrjhez®,

to give you a background with hopes that you can better appreciate our plight, we published the ITB based on the assumption that we can have michelin tires. a reliable and durable brand but with higher price. thus, we computed the ABC with it as basis. its average current market price is 17,000.00/pc. however, the supplier delivered a china-made one with current market price of 13,500/pc. in his bid, 14,500/pc. we all know that this world is full of trickery but this rule on no branding are helping these "bad" suppliers squeezing money from the government. the bid they offered is even higher than buying it in your suking tindahan. any opinion on this, gurus? sama lang talaga ng loob namin dito. delikado talaga ang china-made tires para sa high-speed vehicles..

Can you share to us what are your specifications that needs to be complied for your purchase of tires? Smile
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by the fireman on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:24 am

sir, sorry for the late reply. the specs were prepared by our national headquarters. specs are as follows, to wit; 11.0x20 with flaps and tubes, 16 ply, lug tires... can we improve the specs prepared by our central office?

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by Mikel on Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:20 am

suggestion: could the PE indicate require that the products to be offered must be ISO-certified? in that way, the PE is assured of the product, quality-wise.

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by mari on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:51 pm

if suppliers wont be specifying brand names in their quotes, they could easily switch to substandard goods in their deliveries, in which case, its the government which would end up getting shortchanged.... and isnt it impractical and detrimental to the government if we keep on buying "not so nice quality" goods from government sponsored procurement outlets just because they are cheaper, then end up buying same goods at a higher frequency than if we buy really high quality goods coz the latter are more durable and long lasting....

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:12 pm

marijude wrote:if suppliers wont be specifying brand names in their quotes, they could easily switch to substandard goods in their deliveries, in which case, its the government which would end up getting shortchanged.... and isnt it impractical and detrimental to the government if we keep on buying "not so nice quality" goods from government sponsored procurement outlets just because they are cheaper, then end up buying same goods at a higher frequency than if we buy really high quality goods coz the latter are more durable and long lasting....

There will actually be no problem at all if we have made and stated the right specifications. There will be no issue of "substandard" materials if we know the standards and identified it as part of our requirements. It is the end user/implementing unit that must be able to identify if based on a market research. If such parameters are not well predefined, then the supplier is not bound to deliver our undeclared expectations. Smile
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by jcolas on Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:52 am

"Maam Marijude wrote"

if suppliers wont be specifying brand names in their quotes, they could easily switch to substandard goods in their deliveries, in which case, its the government which would end up getting shortchanged.... and isnt it impractical and detrimental to the government if we keep on buying "not so nice quality" goods from government sponsored procurement outlets just because they are cheaper, then end up buying same goods at a higher frequency than if we buy really high quality goods coz the latter are more durable and long lasting.....

As what was discussed in another thread, the Procuring entity is barred from specifying the brand but is not barred to require that the item should be branded. The Supplier should also specify what brand is he offering to the PE. As what engrjhez posted the PE should reduce in writing its "undeclared expectations" so that the supplier will be guided in the preparation of his quotations. In the first place, how could a bidder come up with an intelligent quotation, if the PE has not reduced into writing its undeclared expectations.
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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by boylaang on Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:24 am

I understand this issue since most LGU encounter this problems this is very common in some barangay specially those are in very far or remote places that thier are only few bidders participate in bidding procces and those people who prepare the bidding procces lack of knowledge about the law and its deep expalanation

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Re: Brand Names in the Bid Proposal: Mandatory or Not?

Post by friend toe on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:59 am

greetings... i suggest the specs must be improved by indicating up to the last quality that "choice brand" possess in order to verify deeper... i don't think so other other tires have all the same qualities with each other?... Smile

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