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National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:24 am

This should be a high time to establish and conduct an annual convention with our PEs as participants. The yearly conduct of a National Convention will hope to discuss updates on R.A. 9184 and the use of PhilGEPS. A 3D/2N setup would be ideal. This is already an established program for Accredited Professional Organizations. If this works with APOs, this will definitely work for the us too. The PS will be the overall in charge of the activities.

Some of the topics that can be discussed on such convention are:

  1. Updates on R.A. 9184 and its IRR;
  2. Latest GPPB Issuances;
  3. Latest procurement related issuance from OP, COA, DBM, DILG, etc.;
  4. Updates on the use of Procurement Service;
  5. Updates on the use of PhilGEPS;
  6. Presentation of PGP related journals, papers, etc.;
  7. Discussion on possible amendments for R.A 9184;
  8. Open Forum (plenary and by groups);
  9. Philippine Government Procurement National Quiz Bee (mag click kaya?) to increase awareness and procurement proficiency of all practitioners;
  10. ...and so much more.

I hope the PS and the GPPB-TSO take a closer look on this as part of their mandates.


Last edited by engrjhez® on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:40 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:38 am

This is still plainly a proposal. Forum members, what can you say on this? Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by REZIE on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:50 am

positive ako jan sir!!! sana matuloy ky lang liitan lang natin ang fee para makaattend kaming PBAC ng PENRO AURORA. thanks!!!

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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by ikuz23 on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:40 pm

yes engrjhez, i agree. pero sana nd lang mga PE's ang participants, the whole bac na rin (or kahit secretariat na lang, haha). naghahanap din kami ng seminars na yung gppb mismo ang incharge. kasi yung ibang nagpapaseminar is only income generating lang (peace Very Happy ). our last update seminar with gppb is feb 2010 pa during pag member namin ng league of cities. mas advantage talaga para sa amin pag sila directly ang nag pa seminar. madami na kasi conflicts & queries sa updates. quiz bee will be fun, hehe.
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:08 pm

ikuz23 wrote:yes engrjhez, i agree. pero sana nd lang mga PE's ang participants, the whole bac na rin (or kahit secretariat na lang, haha). naghahanap din kami ng seminars na yung gppb mismo ang incharge. kasi yung ibang nagpapaseminar is only income generating lang (peace Very Happy ). our last update seminar with gppb is feb 2010 pa during pag member namin ng league of cities. mas advantage talaga para sa amin pag sila directly ang nag pa seminar. madami na kasi conflicts & queries sa updates. quiz bee will be fun, hehe.

Thanks for the support.

The PE (Procuring Entity) should of course prioritize the BAC, Secretariat, TWG if and, and those involved in both property management and procurement. I think many PEs will also support this if undertaken well. Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:42 pm

REZIE wrote:positive ako jan sir!!! sana matuloy ky lang liitan lang natin ang fee para makaattend kaming PBAC ng PENRO AURORA. thanks!!!

Thanks for the support. We are expecting this to be heard by the concerned... Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by firstlady_5167 on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:46 pm

i agree also sa proposal na yan para maging aware or ma update ang mga taong concern sa procurement
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:56 pm

firstlady_5167 wrote:i agree also sa proposal na yan para maging aware or ma update ang mga taong concern sa procurement

Di lang po yan. Mass awareness din para may mass collaboration. Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:55 am

Is our admin and ED dlsn around? Anyone from the GPPB-TSO who can share something about this? Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:43 pm

engrjhez® wrote:Is our admin and ED dlsn around? Anyone from the GPPB-TSO who can share something about this? Smile

There is already a newly-appointed Executive Director of GPPB-TSO in the person of Atty Dennis Santiago. Atty Santiago was an old hand in TSO, went out, and now find himself back again.
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:56 pm

RDV @ GP3i wrote:
engrjhez® wrote:Is our admin and ED dlsn around? Anyone from the GPPB-TSO who can share something about this? Smile

There is already a newly-appointed Executive Director of GPPB-TSO in the person of Atty Dennis Santiago. Atty Santiago was an old hand in TSO, went out, and now find himself back again.

Ok. Thanks for the info. But is dlsn still connected with the GPPB-TSO? Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by fe a. araya on Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:27 pm

Hi, jhez. Agree ako dyan sa proposal mo. It's high time that we do that. People from our Procurement Units should also be included aside from the BAC members, SEcretariats and the TWG. Accountants and Auditors should also be required to attend as there are different interpretations of the IRR in their level. Reading the posts of some of our forum members, it seems there is a problem on how their accountants and auditors implement the IRR. Some (accountants and auditors) even are not aware of several amendments already to the IRR. PEACE!
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by accounting on Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:02 pm

I agree on this proposal. I just want to add something, the type of discussion must be classroom based and a workshop if possible. The traditional convention is a waste of government money, it is only for vacation/galivanting purposes. Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by marriola on Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:02 pm

Hola! Buenas tardes a todo.
Hope and pray we can have one big conclave for procurement practitioners.
Mabuhay,
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by Gwyllen on Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:18 pm

Dapat tlga, its high time na ang GPPB na mismo ang mag sponsor ng National convention yung iba talaga kasi money making lng(peace!) at dapat kasama ang mga respective accountants kasi nag kakanyakanya sila ng interpretations ng IRR ng RA 9184.

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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by LJ on Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:42 pm

hi sir jhez! I also agree with your proposal. and sana maka attend din yung representatives from the branches and not only from the central office. Smile and regarding sa suggestion ni mam fe araya - to include accountants and auditors for the convention / workshop since they have different interpretations also, I think the seminar most appropriate for accountants and auditors is the Seminar on Auditing Procurement. I believe COA is conducting seminars like these. Kc, accountants are not part of the BAC members already, as there will be no check and balance if kasama pa sila. So, if the convention will be attended by BAC members, Secretariat and TWG, it would be more on the procedures ang ma discuss, and I believe that this will not be of help for accountants and/or auditors. Mas better if COA will conduct an updated Seminar on Auditing Procurement.... Dito, dapat mag attend mga accountants and auditors natin, para they will also know na we,as procurement in-charge, are abiding with R.A. 9184. Kc most of the times, accountants and auditors think na sila lang ang tama (PEACE!) Observation lang po, walang personalan... Thanks!
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:32 pm

LJ wrote:hi sir jhez! I also agree with your proposal. and sana maka attend din yung representatives from the branches and not only from the central office. Smile and regarding sa suggestion ni mam fe araya - to include accountants and auditors for the convention / workshop since they have different interpretations also, I think the seminar most appropriate for accountants and auditors is the Seminar on Auditing Procurement. I believe COA is conducting seminars like these. Kc, accountants are not part of the BAC members already, as there will be no check and balance if kasama pa sila. So, if the convention will be attended by BAC members, Secretariat and TWG, it would be more on the procedures ang ma discuss, and I believe that this will not be of help for accountants and/or auditors. Mas better if COA will conduct an updated Seminar on Auditing Procurement.... Dito, dapat mag attend mga accountants and auditors natin, para they will also know na we,as procurement in-charge, are abiding with R.A. 9184. Kc most of the times, accountants and auditors think na sila lang ang tama (PEACE!) Observation lang po, walang personalan... Thanks!

Wala naman problem kung marami ang gusto mag-attend. I think it will just be a question of funds available. What I was thinking is syempre una muna ang mga implementors (BAC, BAC Secretariat, TWG if any and HOPE). The COA may participate, but again as Observers. The GPPB-TSO Accredited and PhilGEPS Accredited Trainers people will present in the convention. This will encourage the preparation of journal papers or short papers in aid of studying the procurement system. Pwede rin na mag-discuss ang COA pero limited sa COA issuances.

Regarding the concern sa who is correct in the interpretation of RA 9184, dapat malinaw na sa GPPB na yun from the beginning. Now kung talagang in-demand ang training based sa participation sa National Convention, then mag-dagdag ng Trainers, mag expand sa Region. Mas malawak, mas maganda. According to a study by the WB, very low at below 30% pa rin ang literate sa RA 9184 Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by accounting on Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:04 pm

There is a seminar yearly conducted by COA, a classroom type discussion. the title of the seminar is Property Supply and Management system, they also touches procurement, this may be helpful to everyone.

Regarding the concern sa who is correct in the interpretation of RA 9184, dapat malinaw na sa GPPB na yun from the beginning
.

I am not quite convince on this premise precisely that GPPB is a policy making body on procurement. Interpretation of the law should be done by other government agency who is not making it, like the instance of the congress with that of judiciary, interpretation is to the former. COA is the supreme audit agency of the government therefore interpretation of the procurement law is to thier side where pre-audit or post-audit is thier function. Moreover, COA has the legitimate position to examine the transaction not GPPB therefore one could examine the transaction based on how they interpret the law. I think the role of the GPPB is to help educate government offices on procurement law and not to firmly stand that they are in correct position to interpret the law. It is just saying that COA should adhere to how the GPPB interpret the procurement law setting aside the parameters of audit.
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by Gwyllen on Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:04 pm

Cguro dapat mae schedule na ito pra naman makatulong na sa mga different BAC members lalo na yung mga baguhan. Is there any move na maeparating na itong suggestion na ito sa GPPB?

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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by accounting on Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:20 pm

peace po sa lahat Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:07 pm

Gwyllen wrote:Cguro dapat mae schedule na ito pra naman makatulong na sa mga different BAC members lalo na yung mga baguhan. Is there any move na maeparating na itong suggestion na ito sa GPPB?

Since this forum is being maintained and monitored by the GPPB-TSO, I am optimistic that this was already brought in their desks for appropriate action. Smile
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:51 am

accounting wrote:There is a seminar yearly conducted by COA, a classroom type discussion. the title of the seminar is Property Supply and Management system, they also touches procurement, this may be helpful to everyone.

Regarding the concern sa who is correct in the interpretation of RA 9184, dapat malinaw na sa GPPB na yun from the beginning
.

I am not quite convince on this premise precisely that GPPB is a policy making body on procurement. Interpretation of the law should be done by other government agency who is not making it, like the instance of the congress with that of judiciary, interpretation is to the former. COA is the supreme audit agency of the government therefore interpretation of the procurement law is to thier side where pre-audit or post-audit is thier function. Moreover, COA has the legitimate position to examine the transaction not GPPB therefore one could examine the transaction based on how they interpret the law. I think the role of the GPPB is to help educate government offices on procurement law and not to firmly stand that they are in correct position to interpret the law. It is just saying that COA should adhere to how the GPPB interpret the procurement law setting aside the parameters of audit.


If the GPPB is not the interpreting or oversight body of the GPRA, then who is? Is it the COA? Of course we are still talking here of the pre-procurement and procurement process where the COA has no part yet.

According to the R.A 9184 itself, the GPPB has the following mandate:
63.1. The Government Procurement Policy Board (GPPB), as established in Section 63 of
the Act, shall have the following duties and responsibilities:

  1. To protect national interest in all matters affecting public procurement, having
    due regard to the country’s regional and international obligations;
  2. To formulate and amend public procurement policies, rules and regulations,
    and amend, whenever necessary, this IRR;
  3. To prepare a generic procurement manual and the standard bidding forms for
    procurement;
  4. To ensure the proper implementation by Procuring Entities of the Act, this IRR
    and all other relevant rules and regulations pertaining to public procurement;
  5. To establish a sustainable training program to develop the capacity of
    Government procurement officers and employees, and to ensure the conduct
    of regular procurement training programs by and for Procuring Entities; and
  6. To conduct an annual review of the effectiveness of the Act and recommend
    any amendments thereto, as may be necessary.
The GPPB shall be under the administrative supervision of the DBM for general
oversight and for budgeting purposes.

If the GPPB cannot interpret R.A.9184, then there is practically no reason why they should be a policy making body. And if there is no authority to interpret, then the GPPB Policy and Non-Policy Matter Opinions are useless. The final interpretation of course of all these policies reside in the Judiciary, the Supreme Court.

Yes there are seminars conducted by COA and I believe it should be aligned with the interpretation of the GPPB (as you pointed out n your last statement). The COA functions to audit, not to interpret. It oversees transactions, not policies. They only follow what has the law and its oversight body has to say and implement it. There is actually not too many to discuss with but I hope it should be clear. Actually, another thousands more of interpretations are conceived by agencies themselves along the way. That is what the COA should look out. Given the law, the IRR, the policies, agencies who they audit must comply strictly to it.

Having said that, I have come to learn a more heavier problem (I hope the COA should take this constructively). One of the very reason why R.A. 9184 is poorly implemented is because the Auditors cannot precisely and accurately pin-point the violations in government procurement (in most cases). Sometimes, they (COA) interpret the law and sees the transaction as sufficient where it should not be. With that, I wonder how our Auditors would perform in an on-the-spot (unannounced) Government Procurement Proficiency Test/Exam? (peace...)

That is the very reason why I am proposing this National Convention. So that we can have at least one time in a year where we can all get together, sit down and look deeply into the procurement system as part of a whole and not just an isolated part of it. The COA can now have the chance to see GPRA in a very different perspective. This will hope to finally unify all interpretations of GPRA and address the critical questions regarding procurement with pin-point accuracy. This will be like a virus spreading the archipelago and that is when we can truly feel government reform in our hands. Smile

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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by accounting on Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:20 pm

[quote]Having said that, I have come to learn a more heavier problem (I hope the COA should take this constructively). One of the very reason why R.A. 9184 is poorly implemented is because the Auditors cannot precisely and accurately pin-point the violations in government procurement (in most cases). Sometimes, they (COA) interpret the law and sees the transaction as sufficient where it should not be. With that, I wonder how our Auditors would perform in an on-the-spot (unannounced) Government Procurement Proficiency Test/Exam? (peace...)

I agree to this but also not to all auditors. I came from different government offices and i mingle to different auditors, there are those who are smart and thank you to them i have learn more while to others, accountants are even more smarter well also thank you to them too.

What i can just say COA is still the barrometer. Maybe we are confused on the term interpret. Correct if i am wrong with this logic, the three branch of government: legislative, executive, judiciary. For purpose of discussion on the procurement law, the executive is the agency, the legislative is GPPB, the judiciary is the COA. If i am wrong with that most pronounce contention, GPPB formulate and ammends, to what work is it. Is it not to the legislative?
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by accounting on Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:22 pm

ay sorry more smarter should be smarter only, sorry po
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Re: National Convention on Philippine Government Procurement

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:11 pm

[quote="accounting"]
Having said that, I have come to learn a more heavier problem (I hope the COA should take this constructively). One of the very reason why R.A. 9184 is poorly implemented is because the Auditors cannot precisely and accurately pin-point the violations in government procurement (in most cases). Sometimes, they (COA) interpret the law and sees the transaction as sufficient where it should not be. With that, I wonder how our Auditors would perform in an on-the-spot (unannounced) Government Procurement Proficiency Test/Exam? (peace...)

I agree to this but also not to all auditors. I came from different government offices and i mingle to different auditors, there are those who are smart and thank you to them i have learn more while to others, accountants are even more smarter well also thank you to them too.

What i can just say COA is still the barrometer. Maybe we are confused on the term interpret. Correct if i am wrong with this logic, the three branch of government: legislative, executive, judiciary. For purpose of discussion on the procurement law, the executive is the agency, the legislative is GPPB, the judiciary is the COA. If i am wrong with that most pronounce contention, GPPB formulate and ammends, to what work is it. Is it not to the legislative?

Allow me to clarify things.

First, my pronouncement is a general one practically reflecting almost (not all) the entire COA. Of course we have very good auditors from COA who helps in developing policies, and uphold the constitution. Some are silent doers, some are forum members and some are even part of the GPPB Accredited Composite Team of Trainers. But you could only find 1 out of 10 of them or even lesser.

Second, the mother of R.A 9184, Executive Order No. 40 was issued 2002 by the Executive Department;

Third, our procurement law (R.A 9184) was enacted by the Congress in 2003;

Fourth, part of R.A 9184 speaks of the GPPB as the oversight body for the said law;

Fifth, The GPPB is under the administrative supervision of DBM - which is part of the executive branch;

Sixth, COA is a Constitutional Office and not a part in any of the executive, legislative, and judiciary (just like the CSC and others);

Finally, since I have mentioned that GPPB is the proper agency to interpret R.A 9184, it also follows that policies, amendments, research, development and oversight is vested to thereby making the GPPB a quasi-parliament body under the executive branch.

I hope the GPPB-TSO can also participate in this thread to better explain things. Smile
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