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contract form or purchase order

Post by cesar on Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:12 am

im cesar of deped-iligan city, bac-secretariat new member. we conducted our procurement on construction materials through public bidding. in rendering contract, which form shall we use? is it the contract form found in the biding documents for goods/services or purchase order?
is there a distinction as to when to use such forms? hope to hear from you soon. thank you so much, found this site so helpful.


Last edited by cesar on Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong word, change "request" to " order")

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Contract Form

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:07 pm

Cesar:

For public bidding, you use the contract form in the Philippine Bidding Documents (PBDs), 2nd Edition.

The final contract shall include the Contract Agreement, the General Conditions of Contract, Special Conditions of Contract, Technical Specifications/Scope of Work, IAEB, and Bidding Documents (which are all part of the PBDs), and other documents as well.

The Purchase Order (PO) is normally used for those procurement activities which do not involve competitive bidding.

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thank you

Post by cesar on Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:10 am

thank you so much RDV!

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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:41 am

You are welcome, cesar. Very Happy
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by 007heran on Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:05 pm

RDV wrote:Cesar:

For public bidding, you use the contract form in the Philippine Bidding Documents (PBDs), 2nd Edition.

The final contract shall include the Contract Agreement, the General Conditions of Contract, Special Conditions of Contract, Technical Specifications/Scope of Work, IAEB, and Bidding Documents (which are all part of the PBDs), and other documents as well.

The Purchase Order (PO) is normally used for those procurement activities which do not involve competitive bidding.

RDV


Nice explanation there sir, but our COA still insist that we must abide with the provision of NGAS Handbook 2005. That is to use Purchase Order (PO). Is there any specific rules under RA 9184 that replace or says that said document is no longer required in Philippine Bidding Documents aside from the repealing clause provided? Thanks in advance...
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:25 am

007heran wrote:
RDV wrote:Cesar:

For public bidding, you use the contract form in the Philippine Bidding Documents (PBDs), 2nd Edition.

The final contract shall include the Contract Agreement, the General Conditions of Contract, Special Conditions of Contract, Technical Specifications/Scope of Work, IAEB, and Bidding Documents (which are all part of the PBDs), and other documents as well.

The Purchase Order (PO) is normally used for those procurement activities which do not involve competitive bidding.

RDV


Nice explanation there sir, but our COA still insist that we must abide with the provision of NGAS Handbook 2005. That is to use Purchase Order (PO). Is there any specific rules under RA 9184 that replace or says that said document is no longer required in Philippine Bidding Documents aside from the repealing clause provided? Thanks in advance...

To answer your question, let me just quote you some of the provisions of the IRR:

"17.1. The Bidding Documents shall be prepared by the procuring entity following the standard forms and manuals prescribed by the GPPB."

"37.2.3. The following documents shall form part of the contract:

a) Contract Agreement;
b) Bidding Documents;
c) Winning bidder’s bid, including the Eligibility requirements, Technical and
Financial Proposals, and all other documents/statements submitted;
d) Performance Security;
e) Credit line in accordance with the provisions of this IRR , if applicable;
f) Notice of Award of Contract; and
g) Other contract documents that may be required by existing laws and/or the procuring entity concerned in the Bidding Documents, such as the construction schedule and S-curve, manpower schedule, construction methods, equipment utilization schedule, construction safety and health program approved by the Department of Labor and Employment, and PERT/CPM for infrastructure projects."

The term "Purchase Order" is used only 4 times in the Revised IRR, that is in Sec. 8.2.4.2 and Sec. 51 only.
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by 007heran on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:07 pm

Thank you sir for a very clear explanation. I hope our COA will be convinced with the above explanation. I mentioned this site to her.

Again, thank you...
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:28 am

007heran wrote:Thank you sir for a very clear explanation. I hope our COA will be convinced with the above explanation. I mentioned this site to her.

Again, thank you...

In some cases, it is the Accounting Office that looks for PO even when there's a Contract Agreement and all the attachments. A synchronization of the system of organizations really have to be administered to attain the uniformity from which RA.9184 is built.

Very Happy
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by sunriser431 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:13 pm

007heran wrote:Thank you sir for a very clear explanation. I hope our COA will be convinced with the above explanation. I mentioned this site to her.

Again, thank you...
I believe your COA resident auditor is just following the prescribe guidelines/procedure in the NGAS manual. For us GOCCs its a requirement. bounce
For Local Government Units (LGUs). Excerpt from NGAS manual volume 1
Sec. 117. Issuance of Purchase Orders or Contract. – Immediately after the LGU has performed all the required procedures adopting a particular mode of procurement, a purchase/letter order or contract shall be issued. The date when the purchase/letter order was received by the supplier or contractor shall be indicated clearly. The purchase order or contract shall be released only to, and signed for by, the awardee or his duly authorized representative.
For National Government Agencies (NGAs). Excerpt from NGAS Manual volume 2
Sec. 55. Purchase Order (PO). The Purchase Order (Appendix 52) shall be used to support purchase of equipment, supplies and materials, etc
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:55 am

sunriser431 wrote:
007heran wrote:Thank you sir for a very clear explanation. I hope our COA will be convinced with the above explanation. I mentioned this site to her.

Again, thank you...
I believe your COA resident auditor is just following the prescribe guidelines/procedure in the NGAS manual. For us GOCCs its a requirement. bounce
For Local Government Units (LGUs). Excerpt from NGAS manual volume 1
Sec. 117. Issuance of Purchase Orders or Contract. – Immediately after the LGU has performed all the required procedures adopting a particular mode of procurement, a purchase/letter order or contract shall be issued. The date when the purchase/letter order was received by the supplier or contractor shall be indicated clearly. The purchase order or contract shall be released only to, and signed for by, the awardee or his duly authorized representative.
For National Government Agencies (NGAs). Excerpt from NGAS Manual volume 2
Sec. 55. Purchase Order (PO). The Purchase Order (Appendix 52) shall be used to support purchase of equipment, supplies and materials, etc

From that provision of the NGAS manual as quoted by sunriser, it is very clear the LGU will EITHER issue a Purchase Order OR Contract.

However, since RA 9184 and its IRR prescribes a Contract Agreement Form, among others, for procurement conducted through PUBLIC BIDDING, the Accountant, neither the COA Auditor, should no longer be requiring the issuance of a Purchase Order as it would only be a duplication. The Manual cannot go higher than RA 9184, which is the Law.
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by 007heran on Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:47 pm

RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:
007heran wrote:Thank you sir for a very clear explanation. I hope our COA will be convinced with the above explanation. I mentioned this site to her.

Again, thank you...
I believe your COA resident auditor is just following the prescribe guidelines/procedure in the NGAS manual. For us GOCCs its a requirement. bounce
For Local Government Units (LGUs). Excerpt from NGAS manual volume 1
Sec. 117. Issuance of Purchase Orders or Contract. – Immediately after the LGU has performed all the required procedures adopting a particular mode of procurement, a purchase/letter order or contract shall be issued. The date when the purchase/letter order was received by the supplier or contractor shall be indicated clearly. The purchase order or contract shall be released only to, and signed for by, the awardee or his duly authorized representative.
For National Government Agencies (NGAs). Excerpt from NGAS Manual volume 2
Sec. 55. Purchase Order (PO). The Purchase Order (Appendix 52) shall be used to support purchase of equipment, supplies and materials, etc

From that provision of the NGAS manual as quoted by sunriser, it is very clear the LGU will EITHER issue a Purchase Order OR Contract.

However, since RA 9184 and its IRR prescribes a Contract Agreement Form, among others, for procurement conducted through PUBLIC BIDDING, the Accountant, neither the COA Auditor, should no longer be requiring the issuance of a Purchase Order as it would only be a duplication. The Manual cannot go higher than RA 9184, which is the Law.

Nicely said! Just hope our COA will be convinced now but am afraid she doesn't give up that easy. Would you believe that she even referred me to their supervising auditor to explain? I told to their supervising auditor that their agency is not just a member of the GPPB but a resource agency and how come that she does not know what is now required and what is not required in RA 9184.

Perhaps there is a need for continuous information dissemination to different agency involved especially those who has direct involvement in the procurement for it brings different interpretation and results confusion.
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:08 pm

007heran wrote:
Nicely said! Just hope our COA will be convinced now but am afraid she doesn't give up that easy. Would you believe that she even referred me to their supervising auditor to explain? I told to their supervising auditor that their agency is not just a member of the GPPB but a resource agency and how come that she does not know what is now required and what is not required in RA 9184.

Perhaps there is a need for continuous information dissemination to different agency involved especially those who has direct involvement in the procurement for it brings different interpretation and results confusion.

The COA, being an independent constitutional body, should not intervene as far as the procurement is concerned. They will only issue audit observation memos in case of disparities and irregularities. If they insist that BOTH must be present, try inviting them to react on the absence of PO when there is a Contract Agreement.

Problema lang, kung parehas ng judgement COA at Accounting. You might not reach payment as the Accounting will not process your procurement, hehe. Very Happy
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:35 pm

engrjhez wrote:
007heran wrote:
Nicely said! Just hope our COA will be convinced now but am afraid she doesn't give up that easy. Would you believe that she even referred me to their supervising auditor to explain? I told to their supervising auditor that their agency is not just a member of the GPPB but a resource agency and how come that she does not know what is now required and what is not required in RA 9184.

Perhaps there is a need for continuous information dissemination to different agency involved especially those who has direct involvement in the procurement for it brings different interpretation and results confusion.

The COA, being an independent constitutional body, should not intervene as far as the procurement is concerned. They will only issue audit observation memos in case of disparities and irregularities. If they insist that BOTH must be present, try inviting them to react on the absence of PO when there is a Contract Agreement.

Problema lang, kung parehas ng judgement COA at Accounting. You might not reach payment as the Accounting will not process your procurement, hehe. Very Happy
For us GOCCs its a requirement to have PO and Contract Agreement. otherwise no processing of vouchers. bounce
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by amang'65 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:46 pm

in fairness to coa, they are just doing their jobs/mandate, while indeed they are an independent constitutional body they could still intervene with our procurement, especially that pre-audit is once again been activated. actually not just our financial matters but they could likewise conduct personnel audit. with regards to whether PO or contract, coa may insist that we need to attach a PO even if it has undergone public bidding because their basis is the NGAS and just like the RA9184, the NGAS is not just a manual but it has a legal basis as stipulated under Article IX-D, Section 2 par. (2) of the 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines
kaya para wala ng away, i think there is nothing wrong if we attach a PO even if there is already a contract. and one advise, never quarrel with your coa, kasi lalo lang kayong pagiinitan nila pag inaaway nyo sila.
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:48 pm

amang1965 wrote:
kaya para wala ng away, i think there is nothing wrong if we attach a PO even if there is already a contract. and one advise, never quarrel with your coa, kasi lalo lang kayong pagiinitan nila pag inaaway nyo sila.

Wala naman pong nang-aaway sa COA (and I think no one would like to). problema lang kapag dalawa ang contract (CA and PO), baka magkaproblema which to follow in case may discrepancy. Very Happy
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by 007heran on Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:54 am

engrjhez wrote:
amang1965 wrote:
kaya para wala ng away, i think there is nothing wrong if we attach a PO even if there is already a contract. and one advise, never quarrel with your coa, kasi lalo lang kayong pagiinitan nila pag inaaway nyo sila.

Wala naman pong nang-aaway sa COA (and I think no one would like to). problema lang kapag dalawa ang contract (CA and PO), baka magkaproblema which to follow in case may discrepancy. Very Happy

hahaha, parang nagsasawa kana mabuhay pag binangga mo ang COA but sana walang personalan kundi healthy discussion lang para maliwanagan ang bawat isa sa mga provisions ng RA 9184. Madalas nga sabihin ng COA na cla daw yung guardian angel natin... who will guard kaya the guardian angel if they start to charge everything to the budget of agencies under them, just a thought... Thread closed.
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by amang'65 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:58 pm

007heran wrote:
RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:
007heran wrote:Thank you sir for a very clear explanation. I hope our COA will be convinced with the above explanation. I mentioned this site to her.

Again, thank you...
I believe your COA resident auditor is just following the prescribe guidelines/procedure in the NGAS manual. For us GOCCs its a requirement. bounce
For Local Government Units (LGUs). Excerpt from NGAS manual volume 1
Sec. 117. Issuance of Purchase Orders or Contract. – Immediately after the LGU has performed all the required procedures adopting a particular mode of procurement, a purchase/letter order or contract shall be issued. The date when the purchase/letter order was received by the supplier or contractor shall be indicated clearly. The purchase order or contract shall be released only to, and signed for by, the awardee or his duly authorized representative.
For National Government Agencies (NGAs). Excerpt from NGAS Manual volume 2
Sec. 55. Purchase Order (PO). The Purchase Order (Appendix 52) shall be used to support purchase of equipment, supplies and materials, etc

From that provision of the NGAS manual as quoted by sunriser, it is very clear the LGU will EITHER issue a Purchase Order OR Contract.

However, since RA 9184 and its IRR prescribes a Contract Agreement Form, among others, for procurement conducted through PUBLIC BIDDING, the Accountant, neither the COA Auditor, should no longer be requiring the issuance of a Purchase Order as it would only be a duplication. The Manual cannot go higher than RA 9184, which is the Law.

Nicely said! Just hope our COA will be convinced now but am afraid she doesn't give up that easy. Would you believe that she even referred me to their supervising auditor to explain? I told to their supervising auditor that their agency is not just a member of the GPPB but a resource agency and how come that she does not know what is now required and what is not required in RA 9184.

Perhaps there is a need for continuous information dissemination to different agency involved especially those who has direct involvement in the procurement for it brings different interpretation and results confusion.


well pardon me if i may have misinterpreted the scenario, because the way i look at it there is already a great misunderstanding between you and your coa because it even went to the extent of you being referred to their Supervising Auditor, when i believe resident auditors are aware of RA9184, you even have the nerve in telling the Supervising Auditor that they do not know what is being required or not, wow! affraid that is why i thought all the while that there is already a malaking kaguluhan, mali pala ako. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by 007heran on Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:15 am

Truth hurts? maybe not kasi in my reply to our COA after she pre-audited our voucher for payment of the recently completed contract I tried not to mention any provisions of RA 9184 for it might provoke her (I assumed na she is more knowledgeable than me). I just told in my reply that PO is only required for transaction not involving public bidding (thanks to engrjherz) and what do i get? She challenge me to prove it (either di nya talaga alam or tamad mag-research) and that is why i referred our case to this forum at yun yung naging basis ko to answer her. I did not mean to provoke her but yung pagiging mapilit nila sa dati nilang alam ang minsan na nakaka-asar kasi ayaw nilang tanggapin na may bago na. But sabi mo nga, di dapat inaaway ang COA kaya tuloy lagi silang tama...
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:36 pm

007heran wrote:Truth hurts? maybe not kasi in my reply to our COA after she pre-audited our voucher for payment of the recently completed contract I tried not to mention any provisions of RA 9184 for it might provoke her (I assumed na she is more knowledgeable than me). I just told in my reply that PO is only required for transaction not involving public bidding (thanks to engrjherz) and what do i get? She challenge me to prove it (either di nya talaga alam or tamad mag-research) and that is why i referred our case to this forum at yun yung naging basis ko to answer her. I did not mean to provoke her but yung pagiging mapilit nila sa dati nilang alam ang minsan na nakaka-asar kasi ayaw nilang tanggapin na may bago na. But sabi mo nga, di dapat inaaway ang COA kaya tuloy lagi silang tama...

So the issues not been resolved Re: Contract form or Purchase Order?
The COA issued this circular 2009-001 dated February 12, 2009
Subject: Re: xxxx Submission of copy government contracts, Purchase Orders and their supporting documents to the COA. Hopefully this will be of great help. Peace to all.
http://www.coa.gov.ph/Whats_New/2009/coacir/COA_Circular2009-001.pdf bounce
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by amang'65 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:05 pm

007heran wrote:Truth hurts? maybe not kasi in my reply to our COA after she pre-audited our voucher for payment of the recently completed contract I tried not to mention any provisions of RA 9184 for it might provoke her (I assumed na she is more knowledgeable than me). I just told in my reply that PO is only required for transaction not involving public bidding (thanks to engrjherz) and what do i get? She challenge me to prove it (either di nya talaga alam or tamad mag-research) and that is why i referred our case to this forum at yun yung naging basis ko to answer her. I did not mean to provoke her but yung pagiging mapilit nila sa dati nilang alam ang minsan na nakaka-asar kasi ayaw nilang tanggapin na may bago na. But sabi mo nga, di dapat inaaway ang COA kaya tuloy lagi silang tama...


oh come on young man (if your a man, heh.he. just referred to your profile), please dont get hurt, everthing is just an opinion with no harm meant, lagay mo na lang na parang tayo ay nagkakape with all the heated discussion and after the kapehan lumamig na din yung heated discussion. okay?
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by riddler on Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:44 pm

sunriser431 wrote:
So the issues not been resolved Re: Contract form or Purchase Order?
The COA issued this circular 2009-001 dated February 12, 2009
Subject: Re: xxxx Submission of copy government contracts, Purchase Orders and their supporting documents to the COA. Hopefully this will be of great help. Peace to all.
http://www.coa.gov.ph/Whats_New/2009/coacir/COA_Circular2009-001.pdf bounce

i hope the COA shall issue an amended Circular soon because some items of the above circular do not conform to the new IRR anymore.
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:41 pm

ruel wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:
So the issues not been resolved Re: Contract form or Purchase Order?
The COA issued this circular 2009-001 dated February 12, 2009
Subject: Re: xxxx Submission of copy government contracts, Purchase Orders and their supporting documents to the COA. Hopefully this will be of great help. Peace to all.
http://www.coa.gov.ph/Whats_New/2009/coacir/COA_Circular2009-001.pdf bounce

i hope the COA shall issue an amended Circular soon because some items of the above circular do not conform to the new IRR anymore.
well noted Ruel, (no offense intended), anyway, it may no longer be the problem of the BAC or BAC secretariat. The preparation of the PO or CAF, maybe responsible by other units of the agency. Peace Smile
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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by Mikel on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:57 am

Please allow me to give my view on the topic.

First, I agree that the GPPB has the authority to prescribe the bidding documents to be used by the government agencies for their procurement activities. However, I would also like to point out that our Office considers any document used in the disbursement of public fund as an accounting form/ document, thus also with in the Commission’s authority to prescribe rules and regulations in relation thereto as mandated by the Constitution. (Interestingly, the Purchase Request form prescribed by COA in the NGAS Manual is still being used today and is not included in the issued PBDs)

On a personal note, I have no problem whether the attached proof of contract of sale is in the form of a PO or contract agreement form as long as the stipulations and provisions thereof complies with the requirements of the laws on procurement and accounting/ auditing. As they say, substance over form.

For sir 007heran, please note that under Sec. 20 of PD 1445 (the State Audit Code of the Philippines) audited agencies are allowed/ required to provide the necessary operating expenses/ support services to their auditors, be it under the MOOE or CO appropriations. (except PS).

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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:51 am

Mikel wrote:Please allow me to give my view on the topic.

First, I agree that the GPPB has the authority to prescribe the bidding documents to be used by the government agencies for their procurement activities. However, I would also like to point out that our Office considers any document used in the disbursement of public fund as an accounting form/ document, thus also with in the Commission’s authority to prescribe rules and regulations in relation thereto as mandated by the Constitution. (Interestingly, the Purchase Request form prescribed by COA in the NGAS Manual is still being used today and is not included in the issued PBDs)

On a personal note, I have no problem whether the attached proof of contract of sale is in the form of a PO or contract agreement form as long as the stipulations and provisions thereof complies with the requirements of the laws on procurement and accounting/ auditing. As they say, substance over form.

For sir 007heran, please note that under Sec. 20 of PD 1445 (the State Audit Code of the Philippines) audited agencies are allowed/ required to provide the necessary operating expenses/ support services to their auditors, be it under the MOOE or CO appropriations. (except PS).
Hello Mikel, welcome back, nice to hear from you, anyway the Purchase Request still being included in the old sample forms in the PBDs,( SF-Good-59 ) it is still harmonized with the NGAS manual likewise with the Hanbook on Property and supply Management system. bounce
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Company/Agency : Goccs Jolo Sulu All the way Downsouth
Occupation/Designation : IAS
Registration date : 2009-05-07

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Re: contract form or purchase order

Post by 007heran on Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:09 am

Thank you guys... I know you have more experiences on this thing than i am and am grateful that there is a venue like this for healthy exchange of ideas and opinions about RA 9184. I have learned a lot from you especially on how to keep an ambience of respect and cooperation within your organization including the COA (thanks sir mikel). Yeah, you are right sir amang1965, perhaps am too emotional in looking things but i believe we need to be in that way sometimes to learn a better way to deal with it next time. Again, thank you guys!!! cheers
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007heran
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Company/Agency : State College
Occupation/Designation : Budget Clerk
Registration date : 2009-06-05

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Re: contract form or purchase order

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