RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

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RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:36 am

After all bids have been received, opened, examined, evaluated and ranked, the BAC shall prepare the corresponding Abstract of Bids as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42). All members of the BAC, as well as the Observers present, shall sign the Abstract of Bids as Calculated and attach thereto all the bids with their corresponding Bid Securities and the minutes or proceedings of the bidding.

My Question, The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:55 am

sunriser431 wrote:After all bids have been received, opened, examined, evaluated and ranked, the BAC shall prepare the corresponding Abstract of Bids as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42). All members of the BAC, as well as the Observers present, shall sign the Abstract of Bids as Calculated and attach thereto all the bids with their corresponding Bid Securities and the minutes or proceedings of the bidding.

My Question, The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?

It may not violate any specific provision, but requiring approval by the HOPE of the Abstract of Bid as Calculated is not necessary. After the evaluation and the LCB has been determined, there is still the process of post-qualification to be done, so it is totally unnecessary. In the case of procurement of GOODS and WORKS, the approval by the HOPE is only on the final recommendation by the BAC for the Award of contract to the LCRB. I wonder why the Finance Department is requiring it.

In the case of Consulting Services, however, the result of the bid evaluation and the ranking of the short-listed bidders need the prior approval by the HOPE before negotiation and post-qualification of the HRB can proceed.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:11 pm

RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:After all bids have been received, opened, examined, evaluated and ranked, the BAC shall prepare the corresponding Abstract of Bids as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42). All members of the BAC, as well as the Observers present, shall sign the Abstract of Bids as Calculated and attach thereto all the bids with their corresponding Bid Securities and the minutes or proceedings of the bidding.

My Question, The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?

It may not violate any specific provision, but requiring approval by the HOPE of the Abstract of Bid as Calculated is not necessary. After the evaluation and the LCB has been determined, there is still the process of post-qualification to be done, so it is totally unnecessary. In the case of procurement of GOODS and WORKS, the approval by the HOPE is only on the final recommendation by the BAC for the Award of contract to the LCRB. I wonder why the Finance Department is requiring it.

In the case of Consulting Services, however, the result of the bid evaluation and the ranking of the short-listed bidders need the prior approval by the HOPE before negotiation and post-qualification of the HRB can proceed.

Its one of those control measures they impose and by the very reason, Its inherent in their functions shall we say PRE-AUDIT of all goverment transactions Smile
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:16 am

sunriser431 wrote:
RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:After all bids have been received, opened, examined, evaluated and ranked, the BAC shall prepare the corresponding Abstract of Bids as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42). All members of the BAC, as well as the Observers present, shall sign the Abstract of Bids as Calculated and attach thereto all the bids with their corresponding Bid Securities and the minutes or proceedings of the bidding.

My Question, The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?

It may not violate any specific provision, but requiring approval by the HOPE of the Abstract of Bid as Calculated is not necessary. After the evaluation and the LCB has been determined, there is still the process of post-qualification to be done, so it is totally unnecessary. In the case of procurement of GOODS and WORKS, the approval by the HOPE is only on the final recommendation by the BAC for the Award of contract to the LCRB. I wonder why the Finance Department is requiring it.

In the case of Consulting Services, however, the result of the bid evaluation and the ranking of the short-listed bidders need the prior approval by the HOPE before negotiation and post-qualification of the HRB can proceed.

Its one of those control measures they impose and by the very reason, Its inherent in their functions shall we say PRE-AUDIT of all goverment transactions Smile

The Finance Department is imposing that procedure as a "control measure"? I would also disagree to the proposition that it is inherent in its function of PRE-AUDIT of all government transaction. There is no transaction yet to pre-audit as the process of procurement is still on-going.

Aside from being contrary to the provisions of RA 9184 and IRR, I wonder what is it that they are trying to control. Does the Finance Department want to control or influence the evaluation made by the BAC? There is also a prohibition on no communication by the BAC, TWG, Secretariat during the evaluation of the bids and pertaining to bid evaluation ("No Contact Rule") until the issuance of Notice of Award, unless otherwise authorized in the IRR. There is nothing in the IRR which says that the results of the bid evaluation thru the Abstract of Bid as Calculated will be subject to prior approval by the HOPE,, except in the case of Consulting Services.

It is a very dangerous proposition that could have been done to try to influence the BAC/TWG to re-calculate the evaluation it has done if it does not favor a specific supplier or contractor.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:35 pm

RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:After all bids have been received, opened, examined, evaluated and ranked, the BAC shall prepare the corresponding Abstract of Bids as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42). All members of the BAC, as well as the Observers present, shall sign the Abstract of Bids as Calculated and attach thereto all the bids with their corresponding Bid Securities and the minutes or proceedings of the bidding.

My Question, The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?

It may not violate any specific provision, but requiring approval by the HOPE of the Abstract of Bid as Calculated is not necessary. After the evaluation and the LCB has been determined, there is still the process of post-qualification to be done, so it is totally unnecessary. In the case of procurement of GOODS and WORKS, the approval by the HOPE is only on the final recommendation by the BAC for the Award of contract to the LCRB. I wonder why the Finance Department is requiring it.


In the case of Consulting Services, however, the result of the bid evaluation and the ranking of the short-listed bidders need the prior approval by the HOPE before negotiation and post-qualification of the HRB can proceed.

The Procedure

After opening of Bids, the BAC will forward the Bid documents to the TWG for the post qualifications. Whatever the outcome of the post qualification, only then the TWG will prepare the Post Qualification Evaluation Report (Standard Form Number: SF-GOOD-44) for submission to the BAC. With the assistance of the BAC Secretariat, will now prepare the Abstract of Bid as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42), recommending (BAC) to the HOPE the results of the evaluation.

Thus my question.The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?

Sir RDV Quote "It is a very dangerous proposition that could have been done to try to influence the BAC/TWG to re-calculate the evaluation it has done if it does not favor a specific supplier or contractor."

I agree with you Sir RDV, at times the Finance would even ask to re-evaluate the results/outcome of the proposal of the Supplier/Bidder if its the most advantageous to the government. Rolling Eyes at worst case scenario, even ask the Enduser unit(provisional member end-user unit) for a Certification that the Price proposal is the most advantageous to the Government. Surprised
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:12 pm

sunriser431 wrote:The Procedure

After opening of Bids, the BAC will forward the Bid documents to the TWG for the post qualifications. Whatever the outcome of the post qualification, only then the TWG will prepare the Post Qualification Evaluation Report (Standard Form Number: SF-GOOD-44) for submission to the BAC. With the assistance of the BAC Secretariat, will now prepare the Abstract of Bid as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42), recommending (BAC) to the HOPE the results of the evaluation.

Thus my question.The Finance Department require this document to be approve by the HOPE. Will this not violate any provision of the GPRA?
The proper procedure:

After bid opening, the TWG will then conduct the evaluation of bids. The Abstract of Bids As Calculated will be prepared as a result of bid evaluation, with the bids ranked from the lowest to the highest. The Lowest Calculated Bidder will be subject to post-qualification. If the LCB passes post-qualification, it will the declared the LCRB by the BAC. The BAC then recommends to the HOPE the award of contract to the LCRB.

sunriser431 wrote:Sir RDV Quote "It is a very dangerous proposition that could have been done to try to influence the BAC/TWG to re-calculate the evaluation it has done if it does not favor a specific supplier or contractor."

I agree with you Sir RDV, at times the Finance would even ask to re-evaluate the results/outcome of the proposal of the Supplier/Bidder if its the most advantageous to the government. Rolling Eyes at worst case scenario, even ask the Enduser unit(provisional member end-user unit) for a Certification that the Price proposal is the most advantageous to the Governt
The BAC recommendation for award is to the LCRB, which is presumed to be the most advantageous price to the government. The end-user, who is a provisional member of the BAC, cannot overule the majority of the BAC. If the HOPE does not agree to the recommendation, he/she should communicate the reason to the BAC, and the reasons are limited to those listed in Sec. 41 of IRR-A.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by riddler on Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:32 pm

RDV wrote:
The proper procedure:

After bid opening, the TWG will then conduct the evaluation of bids. The Abstract of Bids As Calculated will be prepared as a result of bid evaluation, with the bids ranked from the lowest to the highest. The Lowest Calculated Bidder will be subject to post-qualification. If the LCB passes post-qualification, it will the declared the LCRB by the BAC. The BAC then recommends to the HOPE the award of contract to the LCRB.


Since the TWG is tasked to recommend/assist the BAC specifically in evaluation and post-qualification, what if during the process the TWG commits certain procedural lapses in their conduct? would the BAC still assumes all the liabilities? how about the SEcretariat too? I am pretty sure that "the buck stops at the BAC". I hope I am mistaken, does the BAC carry all ALL OF THIs burden? what aBOUT THE TWG AND THE SeCRETARIAT?
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:04 pm

ruel wrote:Since the TWG is tasked to recommend/assist the BAC specifically in evaluation and post-qualification, what if during the process the TWG commits certain procedural lapses in their conduct? would the BAC still assumes all the liabilities? how about the SEcretariat too? I am pretty sure that "the buck stops at the BAC". I hope I am mistaken, does the BAC carry all ALL OF THIs burden? what aBOUT THE TWG AND THE SeCRETARIAT?

The BAC will be liable since it is responsibility of the BAC to conduct the bid evaluation/post-qualification. The TWG, which is a creation of the BAC, is only there to assist it in those functions, aside from eligibility checking/short-listing. The BAC cannot pass the buck (pun intended) to the TWG.

It is quite different with the BAC Sec. It provides mainly administrative support to the BAC. The BAC could not be held liable if it commits mistakes, but the procurement process being undertakin by the BAC could be affected if the BAC Sec. commits administrative lapses.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:15 pm


Since the TWG is tasked to recommend/assist the BAC specifically in evaluation and post-qualification, what if during the process the TWG commits certain procedural lapses in their conduct? would the BAC still assumes all the liabilities? how about the SEcretariat too? I am pretty sure that "the buck stops at the BAC". I hope I am mistaken, does the BAC carry all ALL OF THIs burden? what aBOUT THE TWG AND THE SeCRETARIAT?
It would be prudent to assume that most of the burdens of the procurement process rests within the BAC. Although the Secretariat and TWG carry some accountabilities with themselves, the liabilities were limited to their specific but limited functions. Since the BAC makes all the decisions, whether or not the Secretariat and TWG committed lapses on their part, it is still discretionary on the part of BAC to accept their inputs for their decisions. In the same way the HOPE is not meant to sign resolutions "ministerially", the BAC, in the absence of TWG must expeditiously, and judiciously decide on all matters. Failure to comply may be considered dereliction of duty. Decisions violative of the provisions of RA.9184 are subject to criminal and administrative cases.

Unless a more stringent rule is applied to cover violations of the TWG, the BAC, being the "mother" of the procurement (the HOPE as the father) shall be liable of all actions of their children. Twisted Evil
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by riddler on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:34 pm

In those cases you mentioned RDV and engrjhez, i suggest that the GPPB distinguished the liabilities for the BAC-TWG-SEcretariat. This is a frightening situation for the BAC espescially in large LGU's whose Department Head BAC members are busy in their own domain too! I would like to cite and example; the preparation of Certification for Class "A" documents prepared by the BAC Secretariat and approved by the BAC Chairman. In the real sense, the BAC Chairman "ministerially" approved the Certification as prepared by the Secretariat, di ba? What if the BAC Secretariat commits lapses in examining the Class "A" documents? Do the BAC really need to examine every piece of documents pesented as if there was no TWG-Secretariat at all? affraid
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:48 pm

ruel wrote:In those cases you mentioned RDV and engrjhez, i suggest that the GPPB distinguished the liabilities for the BAC-TWG-SEcretariat. This is a frightening situation for the BAC espescially in large LGU's whose Department Head BAC members are busy in their own domain too! I would like to cite and example; the preparation of Certification for Class "A" documents prepared by the BAC Secretariat and approved by the BAC Chairman. In the real sense, the BAC Chairman "ministerially" approved the Certification as prepared by the Secretariat, di ba? What if the BAC Secretariat commits lapses in examining the Class "A" documents? Do the BAC really need to examine every piece of documents pesented as if there was no TWG-Secretariat at all? affraid

The Class "A" certification is a BAC certification, although prepared by the BAC Secretariat. Therefore, the BAC would be held responsible, together with the BAC secretariat, for its contents.

The BAC would not be expected to examine every piece of document, that is why it is required that the procuring entity should appoint personnel to those organizations who are both knowledgeable about the procurement law and also on the basis of integrity. If you put there job orders, then you accept responsibility for putting there those people. That
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:56 pm

Sir RDV, the outcome would still be the same, the only variation is in the Abstract of Bids as Calculated, with additional field/space provided " APPROVED/DISAPPROVED BY: " for the HOPE to Sign. Furthermore as to recommendation of the BAC as to findings " Lowest Calculated Responsive Bid" are provided in the Additional information/Remarks/Findings in the Abstract of Bids as Calculated.

Sunriser431 Quote
"The Procedure"
After opening of Bids, the BAC will forward the Bid documents to the TWG for the post qualifications. Whatever the outcome of the post qualification, only then the TWG will prepare the Post Qualification Evaluation Report (Standard Form Number: SF-GOOD-44) for submission to the BAC. With the assistance of the BAC Secretariat, will now prepare the Abstract of Bid as Calculated (SF-GOOD-42), recommending (BAC) to the HOPE the results of the evaluation. (meaning the LCRD)
Sir RDV Quote
"The proper procedure"
After bid opening, the TWG will then conduct the evaluation of bids. The Abstract of Bids As Calculated will be prepared as a result of bid evaluation, with the bids ranked from the lowest to the highest. The Lowest Calculated Bidder will be subject to post-qualification. If the LCB passes post-qualification, it will the declared the LCRB by the BAC. The BAC then recommends to the HOPE the award of contract to the LCRB.

Sir RDV Quote
The BAC recommendation for award is to the LCRB, which is presumed to be the most advantageous price to the government. The end-user, who is a provisional member of the BAC, cannot overule the majority of the BAC. If the HOPE does not agree to the recommendation, he/she should communicate the reason to the BAC, and the reasons are limited to those listed in Sec. 41 of IRR-A.

After Approval of the HOPE. the Abstract of Bids as Calculated, either a Purchase Order or Contract form shall be prepared. It is now subject Pre-Audit if all the GPRA procedures are followed and specially the financial proposal of the bidder. How can anyone know its the most advantegeous price to the government. The Accounting unit would conduct independent price confirmation from the selected supplier from the locality, only to find out, most if not all supplier gave information that for Bidding for Government the Price is much higher, If you are a contractor the Price given at Discounted, for walk-in customer the price would also be different
Now the only way to solve the issues as to the most advantageous price offered to the government is to ask a Certification from the the Enduser unit(provisional member end-user unit), in addition they are the ones who prepared the ABC for the project.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:04 pm

sunriser431 wrote:Sir RDV, the outcome would still be the same, the only variation is in the Abstract of Bids as Calculated, with additional field/space provided " APPROVED/DISAPPROVED BY: " for the HOPE to Sign. Furthermore as to recommendation of the BAC as to findings " Lowest Calculated Responsive Bid" are provided in the Additional information/Remarks/Findings in the Abstract of Bids as Calculated..

One intent/principle of the GPRA and IRR-A is to "standardize" the procurement process for all procuring entities.

And, by the way, with the Abstract of Bid as Calculated, the BAC is only able to determine the Lowest Calculated Bid (LCB) and not the LCRB. The LCRB is determined only afterwards, during the post-qualification process, and it is covered by another document which is the Post-Qualification Summary Report.

sunriser431 wrote:After Approval of the HOPE. the Abstract of Bids as Calculated, either a Purchase Order or Contract form shall be prepared. It is now subject Pre-Audit if all the GPRA procedures are followed and specially the financial proposal of the bidder. How can anyone know its the most advantegeous price to the government. The Accounting unit would conduct independent price confirmation from the selected supplier from the locality, only to find out, most if not all supplier gave information that for Bidding for Government the Price is much higher, If you are a contractor the Price given at Discounted, for walk-in customer the price would also be different. Now the only way to solve the issues as to the most advantageous price offered to the government is to ask a Certification from the the Enduser unit(provisional member end-user unit), in addition they are the ones who prepared the ABC for the project.
Since, you said the end-user unit is the one preparing the ABC for the project, the process of doing the market study should be done before the bidding, in order to arrive at the most realistic ABC, and not after the bidding process when there is already a winning bidder.

It is also a common observation that the price given by a supplier for a government project is generally a tad higher than a price that it would give a private "walk-in customer". There a number of factors for this, such as government taxes and inherent cost of money to the supplier (dahil matagal tayo magbayad sa kanila).

Unless there is a very evident overpricing as a result of the bidding process (although this should not happen if the ABC is properly determined, in the first place) or that the bidding process was violated by the BAC, neither the accounting department nor the end-user/provisional member should have a different "recommendation" to the HOPE than that of the BAC.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:26 am

Sir RDV quote
Since, you said the end-user unit is the one preparing the ABC for the project, the process of doing the market study should be done before the bidding, in order to arrive at the most realistic ABC, and not after the bidding process when there is already a winning bidder.


The preparation for a realistic ABC is done before the bidding taking into considerations the VAT, cost of the preparation bid documents, (including the notarization of documents,postage, etc. posting of Bid security, warranty, retention money,performance security, etc. also taken into consideration the feedback from the supplier/bidder), also the 3% contingencies are added to the cost.
But then again inspite all the precautionary measures taken, the Accounting Unit still insist on the Certification that the price offered is the most advantegeous to the government. In my opinion, the Accounting unit is trying to avoid the COA disallowance or shall i call it Audit observation reports. Smile
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by riddler on Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:32 am

sunriser431 wrote:Sir RDV quote
Since, you said the end-user unit is the one preparing the ABC for the project, the process of doing the market study should be done before the bidding, in order to arrive at the most realistic ABC, and not after the bidding process when there is already a winning bidder.


The preparation for a realistic ABC is done before the bidding taking into considerations the VAT, cost of the preparation bid documents, (including the notarization of documents,postage, etc. posting of Bid security, warranty, retention money,performance security, etc. also taken into consideration the feedback from the supplier/bidder), also the 3% contingencies are added to the cost.
But then again inspite all the precautionary measures taken, the Accounting Unit still insist on the Certification that the price offered is the most advantegeous to the government. In my opinion, the Accounting unit is trying to avoid the COA disallowance or shall i call it Audit observation reports. Smile

Ha ha ha! (No pun intended) lol! That is always a classic case of our procurement in the government. and
You have defensive Accountant like ours Sunriser.

Since
RDV wrote:It is also a common observation that the price given by a supplier for a government project is generally higher than a price that it would give a private "walk-in customer". There a number of factors for this, such as government taxes and inherent cost of money to the supplier (dahil matagal tayo magbayad sa kanila).

THe Underlined is one of the underlying reason bakit mahal maki pag deal sa gobyerno. I have tried to re-imbursed my gasoline expenses (emergency), to my surprise the cash price is lower by almost 15% than ordinary bidding process we have.
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:59 pm

ruel wrote:In those cases you mentioned RDV and engrjhez, i suggest that the GPPB distinguished the liabilities for the BAC-TWG-SEcretariat. This is a frightening situation for the BAC espescially in large LGU's whose Department Head BAC members are busy in their own domain too! I would like to cite and example; the preparation of Certification for Class "A" documents prepared by the BAC Secretariat and approved by the BAC Chairman. In the real sense, the BAC Chairman "ministerially" approved the Certification as prepared by the Secretariat, di ba? What if the BAC Secretariat commits lapses in examining the Class "A" documents? Do the BAC really need to examine every piece of documents presented as if there was no TWG-Secretariat at all? affraid

Sir RDV Quote
The Class "A" certification is a BAC certification, although prepared by the BAC Secretariat. Therefore, the BAC would be held responsible, together with the BAC secretariat, for its contents.

The BAC would not be expected to examine every piece of document, that is why it is required that the procuring entity should appoint personnel to those organizations who are both knowledgeable about the procurement law and also on the basis of integrity. If you put there job orders, then you accept responsibility for putting there those people. That

For discussion purpose:
Sunriser431wrote
As a public servant we are bound by the duties and responsibilities bestowed upon us, but then again we have to distinguish what is Ministerial as oppose to Discretionary. It is Ministerial when the discharge of its duties and responsibilities by the public servant concern requires neither judgement nor discretion. As oppose to Discretionary when it is imposed by law upon the public servant wherein the right to decide how and when the duties and respnsibilities shall be performed. Guys your input/opinion would be greatly appreciated

Section 12. Functions of the BAC
12.1. The BAC shall have the following functions: advertise and/or post the invitation to bid, conduct pre-procurement and pre-bid conferences, determine the eligibility of prospective bidders, receive bids, conduct the evaluation of bids,
undertake post-qualification proceedings, resolve motions for reconsideration, recommend award of contracts to the head of the procuring entity or his duly authorized representative:
Provided, however, That in the event the head of the
procuring entity shall disapprove such recommendation, such disapproval shall be based only on valid, reasonable and justifiable grounds to be expressed in writing, copy furnished the BAC; recommend the imposition of sanctions in
accordance with Rule XXIII, and perform such other related functions as may be necessary, including the creation of a Technical Working Group (TWG) from a pool of technical, financial and/or legal experts to assist in the procurement
process, particularly in the eligibility screening, evaluation of bids and postqualification. In proper cases, the BAC shall also recommend to the head of the procuring entity the use of Alternative Methods of Procurement as provided for in Rule XVI hereof.
12.2 xxxx
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:57 pm

ruel wrote: Ha ha ha! (No pun intended)lol! That is always a classic case of our procurement in the government. and You have defensive Accountant like ours Sunriser.

Actually not defensive, they dont want to take part in the "IIEEUU" or Illegal, Irregular, Extravagant, Excessive, Unconscionable or Unnecessary transactions. But with the new COA circular 2009-002 dated May 18, 2009, is a welcome relief for them. Very Happy
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Re: RE: The Abstract of Bids as Calculated

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