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Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

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Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:28 pm

This is the provision of COA Circular No. 2003-004 that prohibit the Accountant for being a regular BAC Member "the Chief Accountant and the personnel under him are tasked to approve
the voucher in payment of such goods and services procured and of the infrastructure
prosecuted and to certify to the availability of funds for the project subject of the bidding. Thus,
it becomes necessary to ensure that the procurement and payment functions are segregated in
keeping with the rules and principles of good internal control and to avert the possibility of
conflict of interest that may arise under the circumstances."
, based on this provision the rationale of the prohibition is the segregation of procurement and payment functions, but in local government unit , the officials involved in the payment function are the followings:
1) Budget Officer - certify the existence of appropriation.
2) Accountant - certify the allotment obligated for the purpose and completeness of supporting documents
3) Treasurer - certify the availability of funds
4) Mayor - approved for payment
As we can see the above facts, I can ask a this question "WHY THE ACCOUNTANT ONLY ? ". Thank You.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:53 pm

that is what we argue with the COA then but the circular specifically identifies the personnel to be prohibited, say "Prohibition for the Chief Accountant and personnel of accounting units to be regular members of the Bids and Award Committees. the circular does not say the chief accountant and the personnel approving the payment.
Rationally, the accounting office is the internal audit office of the certain organization where pre-audit happens. unfortunately, what organizations do is to check only the completeness of the supporting documents. so that whenever papers are complete and proper, that ends the pre-audit. the real essence of audit is not manifested there. that function must be replaced into checking of supporting papers only.
As to the query for this instance, i support the proponent why only chief accountant is prohibited, it must be the team composing the payment process. Smile
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:58 pm

the contention of the circular is this: "On the other hand, the Chief Accountant and the personnel under him are tasked to approve the voucher in payment of such goods and services procured and of the infrastructure prosecuted and to certify to the availability of funds for the project subject of the bidding. Thus, it becomes necessary to ensure that the procurement and payment functions are segregated in keeping with the rules and principles of good internal control and to avert the possibility of conflict of interest that may arise under the circumstances.

here the function of certifying the availability of is with the accountant while is should be for the treasurer, the approving of the voucher is given to accountant while it should be for the mayor/governor. what the accountants only approve is the completeness of documents and certify the allotment obligated for the purpose.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:43 pm

That is our procedures in LGU, I dont know in National Government Agencies, Government Owned and Controlled Corporations and State Universities.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:27 pm

For information purpose only.
click the LINK 1 Circular 03-2003
and LINK 2 COA circular 2003-004

Excerpts from the circular.
2.2 xxx
2.3 In view of the foregoing, in line with the provisions of Sections 11.2.1 (3) and
11.2.2 of IRR-A of R.A. 9184 and COA Circular No. 2003-004, the head of the procuring entity may designate any personnel from the finance area thereof, in the case of NGAs, departments, bureaus, offices, or intrumentalities of the Government, including judiciary and legislative branches, constitutional commissions, SUCs, GOCCs, and GFIs, or from the Budget Office, in the case of LGUs, provided that such official is neither the Chief Accountant nor a personnel of the Accounting Unit of the procuring entity concerned. However, the Chief Accountant and any personnel of the Accounting Unit of a procuring
entity may serve as provisional members when the said Unit is the end-user of the items, subject of the bidding.
bounce
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:46 pm

The rationale of the prohibition is the segregation of procurement and payment functions that will strengthening of internal control in the operations of the government, but in the payment functions the accountant is not alone in this function, the treasurer and budget are involved and have controls too.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:48 pm

why accountant only provisional while treasurer and budget officer are regular ? what makes accountant different?
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:54 pm

Jovinal wrote:why accountant only provisional while treasurer and budget officer are regular ? what makes accountant different?
From the point of view of COA, accountants are suppose to be the watch dog of the government funds of the agencies. From the point of view of Agency accountants, its a blessings, who wanted to be members of club 6115. bounce
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:11 am

That is our procedures in LGU, I dont know in National Government Agencies, Government Owned and Controlled Corporations and State Universities.

LGU, NGA and SUC are of no difference because i came from those offices already, i do'nt know with GOCC but the since government accounting is universal to all government institutions so i presumed it is the same. the only diference is the name of position title.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:15 am

From the point of view of COA, accountants are suppose to be the watch dog of the government funds of the agencies. From the point of view of Agency accountants, its a blessings, who wanted to be members of club 6115.

What's club 6115 if you won't mind me asking?
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:11 pm

I dont know what he mean.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by riddler on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:00 pm

accounting wrote:
From the point of view of COA, accountants are suppose to be the watch dog of the government funds of the agencies. From the point of view of Agency accountants, its a blessings, who wanted to be members of club 6115.

What's club 6115 if you won't mind me asking?

Sad it refers to Sec. 65.1 of Rule XXI-Penal Clause of the amended IRR.. he he he. Very Happy six(6) years and one(1) day but, not more than fifteen (15) years of imprisonment.. Embarassed kaya nga Club 6115 tawag ni jhez dyaan.. Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad



Last edited by riddler on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:58 pm

ah ok all i taught there's a club named 6115 where procurement officers meet.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:32 pm

Section 1. of Administrative Order No. 119 provides Agency Responsibility. — The responsibility for the fiscal operations of offices and agencies of government is hereby declared to reside primarily in the respective Heads of each office, agency, government-owned or controlled corporation, and local government unit. For this purpose, each and every office, agency, corporation and local government unit is mandated to strengthen its internal control system and/or organize systems and procedures to that effect in coordination with the Department of Budget and Management. , on this provision, internal control function rest with head of agency not with accountant, why the accountant a watchdog not COA?
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:53 pm

Jovinal wrote:Section 1. of Administrative Order No. 119 provides Agency Responsibility. — The responsibility for the fiscal operations of offices and agencies of government is hereby declared to reside primarily in the respective Heads of each office, agency, government-owned or controlled corporation, and local government unit. For this purpose, each and every office, agency, corporation and local government unit is mandated to strengthen its internal control system and/or organize systems and procedures to that effect in coordination with the Department of Budget and Management. , on this provision, internal control function rest with head of agency not with accountant, why the accountant a watchdog not COA?
Well I believe in the principle of Fiscal responsibility rest with agency Heads, thats why COA lifted the pre-audit of government transactions and not get involve in the day to day operation of the agency. Meanwhile agency accountants will conduct the Pre-audit and COA will do the post-audit the agency transaction, state simply, accounting work ends and auditing work begins. bounce
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:00 am

Well I believe in the principle of Fiscal responsibility rest with agency Heads, thats why COA lifted the pre-audit of government transactions and not get involve in the day to day operation of the agency. Meanwhile agency accountants will conduct the Pre-audit and COA will do the post-audit the agency transaction, state simply, accounting work ends and auditing work begins.

we won't argue with that sir sunriser431. we definitely know that distinction of work. what we, accountants, can't understand is that we, in the accounting, is solely the party being separated from the circular and that the responsibility is solely placed on our shoulders where in fact we are just a part of the procurement process and our approval on the voucher was only to vouch the completeness of documents and that allotment obligated for the purpose and not the responsibility being portrayed in the circular.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:14 am

Do you think the determination of completeness of documents and that allotment obligated for the purpose will comprise what he mean PRE-AUDIT?
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by accounting on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:45 pm

in box b of the DV, the wordings there does not include pre-audit.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

Post by Jovinal on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:34 pm

That is right.
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Re: Treasurer and Budget Officer in LGUs should be prohibited too of being regular BAC Member under COA Circular 2003-004.

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