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What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

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What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:21 pm

What Should be the relationship of the BAC and the BAC Secretariat? Considering that the two are the creations of the HOPE are they equal? Can the BAC dictate on the BAC Secretariat? In as much as the BAC Secretariat is the Administrative Arm of the BAC and the Same is the creation of the HOPE. to whom should the BAC Secretariat report first?
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by riddler on Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:00 am

jcolas wrote:What Should be the relationship of the BAC and the BAC Secretariat? Considering that the two are the creations of the HOPE are they equal? Can the BAC dictate on the BAC Secretariat? In as much as the BAC Secretariat is the Administrative Arm of the BAC and the Same is the creation of the HOPE. to whom should the BAC Secretariat report first?

The BAC and the BAC Secretariat are two separate entities complimentay to each other for the purpose of implementing RA 9184. The BAC Secretariat can never be under the BAC(unlike the TWG) since both are created by the HOPE.

For me, the BAC can never dictate the BAC-Secretariat in the spirit of fair play and independence, that is why the liabilities of the BAC Secretariat should be dilienated from the BAC (Does the new IRR provide Mr. GPPB?).

jcolas, both are under the mantle of the HOPE, the 2 can always report to the HOPE at anytime.
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:05 am

jcolas wrote:What Should be the relationship of the BAC and the BAC Secretariat? Considering that the two are the creations of the HOPE are they equal? Can the BAC dictate on the BAC Secretariat? In as much as the BAC Secretariat is the Administrative Arm of the BAC and the Same is the creation of the HOPE. to whom should the BAC Secretariat report first?

The creation of a BAC Secretariat is mandatory and its main purpose is to provide administrative support to the BAC. The answer to your question, therefore, is quite clear, the BAC Secretariat reports first or directly to the BAC.

Can the BAC dictate on the BAC Secretariat? Yes, but, of course, it can only follow legal orders. If it is being dictated to follow an illegal order (as it is contrary to RA 9184 and its IRR-A or any other laws of the land), then it should not follow an illegal order. The BAC Secretariat can report the matter to the HOPE.
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:16 pm

jcolas wrote:What Should be the relationship of the BAC and the BAC Secretariat? Considering that the two are the creations of the HOPE are they equal? Can the BAC dictate on the BAC Secretariat? In as much as the BAC Secretariat is the Administrative Arm of the BAC and the Same is the creation of the HOPE. to whom should the BAC Secretariat report first?
In most cases (i do not single out), the BAC Secretariat is better trusted by the HOPE because of their first hand influence on drafts and documents (to be) signed by the BAC and the HOPE himself. I would agree that the BAC Sec must be made as independent as possible from the BAC. As RDV pointed out, the BAC Sec is still bound to comply with legal orders, but independence must be observed accordingly.

Together, they can be the treated like a "mandatory mistress" with the HOPE as the husband and the BAC as the wife. Both were created (and selected) by the HOPE. Although legally speaking, the BAC has all the "assests and liabilities" with it, the BAC secretariat is most of the time, the "apple of the eye" as far as RA.9184 is concerned.

Comments anyone? Very Happy
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:17 pm

Thank you sirs for your responses.As to my question as to whom should the BAC Sec report first, I tend to agree with sir RDV. With my readings and with the response of RDV, the BAC Secretariat should report first to the BAC as it was created to provide administrative services to the BAC. As to the question on the BAC dictating on the BAC Secretariat, I tend to agree with sir ruel. The two are separate creation of the HOPE and being the repository of documents, the BAC SEC should be independent from the BAC, and being an independent entity or body, the BAC must not and should refrain from dictating on the BAC Sec. If we all analyze the roles and responsiblities of the BAC SEC,one can conclude that it is the wheel that brings the BAC to its mission of recommending and eventually aiding the HOPE in its quest for a procurement that is above-board. This now brings me to my next question. If in the belief of the BAC Secretariat, the BAC due to its inexperience and its ignorance to the rules of RA 9184, can it stand up and point out this flaws knowing fulyy well that it has no voice during the deliberations? Please enlighten me...
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by msm326 on Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:53 pm

Good Day jcolas.... Based on RA 9184 , there will be a designated BAC Secretariat head and with my personal experience for almost 4 years of implementation of the procurement procedures ... you are right that members of the Secretariat has no voice during the deliberations but the head of the Secretariat could have and they are appointed based on their qualifications...in my case then , I was the consultant(kuno of the BAC) they know em more have the experience and manuals on procurement is my best pal ....as a new member (unfortunately no wide dessimination on this forum was not yet established) that adds my readings and everyday I browse and try to interact with you guys....
It is a matter of having the guts to express (basta on the right track ka and you have legal and concrete basis) ...that is my weapon .....
msm326 Razz
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:23 pm

Thank you for that assurance and encouragement, but sometimes I get frustrated when the BAC does not know what they are doing. Humahaba and proceso dahils sa ginagawa nila. Even the rule on "pass/fail" process being so simple, one of them or all of them try to compute the mathematical accuracy of the submitted NFCC. I do not know if the Chair of the BAC Secretariat can point out to them that what they are doing is just prolonging the process kaya nga tinatanong ko kung pwede kung e p[oint out na pass/fail lang and gagawin nila. Paanu kaya?
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by msm326 on Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:08 pm

Good day....in my case everything and the proceedings are properly recorded and documented it is good we have the ARTA you can point it out to that there are number of days on this procurement procedures that BAC should observe....judging with the proceedings you are sharing ...BAC will only use the discritionary pass/fail criteria and afterwards the postqualifications ...basahan mo lagi ng mga legal basis on RA 9184 .....there are so many cases on LGUs now takutin mo kaya (kidding aside)( for the lighter point lang ha) ......reading the previous comments kasi we are so very serious (sana dumami ang lahi natin).

I see to it everything is addressed to the Chairman so you are in safe hands....di ba we have an observer during BAC Meetings (are they not attending?) perhaps they could influence some observations by writing it (what do you think?) transparency is the key here...
msm326 Very Happy
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:49 am

Thank you msm for your pointers and I agree with you sa pagsabi mo na takutin ko kaya Ano? (Joke lang) But if you look at the penal provision of the Act (Sec. 65, Art. XXI) (a) Without prejudice to the provisions of RA 3019... public officers (so that includes the SEC, TWG) who commits any of the following acts shall suffer the penalty of imprisonment...What are the acts msm? Cite ko sa u isa:"Delaying without justifiable cause, the screening for eligibility, opening of bids, evaluation and post evaluation of bids, and awarding of contracts beyond the prescribed periods of action provided for in the IRR." Granting that the above-cited act was done unconciously or because the BAC Chair or any member of the BAC does not know the law, they can not still escape prosecution becuase of the old and reliable adage "Innocence of the law excduses no one" wil am surel apply to them; Granting again that a bidder will take action against them, can we escape by telling the ombudsman that we are just the Chair or member of the BAC Secretariat? Please Help msm and you guys out there.
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by engrjhez® on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:58 am

While it is easy to apply the rules on the part of NGAs, the case is very different on LGUs. There are a lot of factors other than ignorance of RA.9184. Sometimes, when you already know what is right, it is just so very hard to follow it. Why? Politics. When everething seems all fine, politics ruin the process. More than anything else, politics in LGUs are more predominant than in any other government offices. If there would be no political influences, then there is actually no hassle implementing any law to LGUs.

Sana there will come a time when politics is just an issue of the past. To move on, we really need to set aside the "compromises" and start LEADING CHANGE for the better. While others believe "life is short, so just enjoy...", I believe the challenge is already there. Life is short, so make the most of it. Small things we do, matters to good governance. Kasi even if we don't live so long to see that day, our advocacies shall continue for generations and generations so that the world will always remember that small government employees like us once believed in a non-political public service.

Sana next time, candidates think of winning the seat as (only) consequence, and not as an objective. Kasi if that would be the principle, you simply do what is right and everything else follows. Choosing to win is actually leading to a lot of problems later on when that happens. Very Happy
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:28 pm

Sir engrjhez I agree with you. The procurement landscape in an LGU is very different from that of a National Government Agency like mine. Yours is dictated by the politicians' desire to get back his expenses in the last election. Yours again is dictated by the politicians' desire to save for the next coming election so that he will remain the political lord and HOPE in that municipality, city or province. I will not tell you to remain steadfast and stick to the provisions of RA 9184 in the face of the political clout of your HOPE because I do not know the political environment in your place. That will be up to you; but we are going out of my question. Knowing that I can not escape responsibility under Sec. 65 of Art XXI of RA 9184 , can I, the BAC Secretariat Chair point out what the flaw is during the deliberation by the BAC so that the process will not be prolonged even if the BAC SEc Chair has no voice during the deliberation? Talaga ba wala boses BAC Sec Chair?
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by engrjhez® on Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:17 pm

jcolas wrote:... Knowing that I can not escape responsibility under Sec. 65 of Art XXI of RA 9184 , can I, the BAC Secretariat Chair point out what the flaw is during the deliberation by the BAC so that the process will not be prolonged even if the BAC SEc Chair has no voice during the deliberation? Talaga ba wala boses BAC Sec Chair?
Sorry for that emotional breakdown. (Di nga pala nasagot yung question Very Happy)

Going back, I believe the Head of BAC Sec has a lot of "say" in the proceedings. You may do it either on or off the record (i guess it would not matter). Being tasked to provide administrative support to the BAC, you can always make a stand on what you think is proper and in order. Anyway, it is the BAC who will unanimously approve or disapprove any motion. All it takes is "guts". Although the idea is not from any BAC member, the decision of the BAC as a whole is what matters the most. As to the analogy I presented earlier in this same topic, the BAC Secretariat is like a legal mistress, while the BAC being the legal wife of the HOPE. Both can freely influence the HOPE in their own way. But just like in real life mistress talking to the legal wife, be careful with your words. It may mean differently if you are not that close. As I also mentioned, the BAC Sec is better trusted than the BAC because of their inherent expertise. Make use of your place as the Head of BAC Sec. Nobody else can influence the BAC's decision the way BAC Sec does. While it is the Judge (BAC) who decides the case, it is mostly the job for the Clerk-of-Court (BAC Sec) who do the letters and the readings. Very Happy

Please understand that when I make statements, I always do not single out. Our case in LGU is never an isolated case. Whether the politics is massively affecting the procurement or not, It has always been my job to do the lead the way where I can lead the way. Where I do not hold any control, I try to suggest. You can always try to persuade not only the BAC but also the HOPE, that your idea(s) are not for yourself but for the agency as well. Anyway, nobody wants to spend at least six years and one day to fifteen years in prison. Neutral
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:13 pm

Sir engrjhez;
Thank you for that assurance. I am now certain that as BAC Sec Chair, i will not just be a bystander. With that assurance, I can now ask them to listen to my voice. Sabi nga nila sino and may gustong magmember sa Club 6115. An advise also to all BAC SEC Chair. always ask for a ruling from the BAC in any issues that is being deliberated upon and be sure it is properly recorded in the minutes of the meeting. Thank you again sir.
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Can this forum also be a venue for sharing of ideas redargding the reinstitution of pre-audit come August 1?

Post by msm326 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:26 pm

Sirs/Madams,

May I ask if we can discuss also issues/concerns for the pre-audit come August 1? we have a procurement milestone and ARTA as well as pledge of commitment and the number of days COA will reply on transactions will not coincide with the stages of procurement (i.e. post qualification/evaluation).....

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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by sunriser431 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:54 pm

jcolas wrote:Sir engrjhez I agree with you. The procurement landscape in an LGU is very different from that of a National Government Agency like mine. Yours is dictated by the politicians' desire to get back his expenses in the last election. Yours again is dictated by the politicians' desire to save for the next coming election so that he will remain the political lord and HOPE in that municipality, city or province. I will not tell you to remain steadfast and stick to the provisions of RA 9184 in the face of the political clout of your HOPE because I do not know the political environment in your place. That will be up to you; but we are going out of my question. Knowing that I can not escape responsibility under Sec. 65 of Art XXI of RA 9184 , can I, the BAC Secretariat Chair point out what the flaw is during the deliberation by the BAC so that the process will not be prolonged even if the BAC SEc Chair has no voice during the deliberation? Talaga ba wala boses BAC Sec Chair?

Section 14. BAC Secretariat
The Secretariat shall have the following functions and responsibilities:
14.1.1 xxxx
14.1.2 xxxx
In as much the functions of the BAC Secretariat has been outline in Section 14 of the IRR-A, as Head of the BAC Secretariat, I always maintain the independence and not interfere the affairs of the BAC. But at times the BAC would ask for advice/opinions, and I see to it that whatever advice/opinions I gave would be always be fully supported by reference for their guidance.
This is were the importance of inviting observer in any stages of the Procurement process. Section 13.4 oulines the responsibilities of the observers
Section 13. Observers
13.1. To enhance the transparency of the process, the BAC shall, in all stages of the procurement process, invite, in addition to the representative of the COA, at least two (2) observers to sit in its proceedings:
13.1.1 xxxx
13.1.2 xxxx
13.4. Responsibilities of the Observers
The observers shall have the following responsibilities:
1. Preparation of the report either jointly or separately indicating their observations made on the bidding activity conducted by the BAC for submission to the Head of the Procuring entity, copy furnished the BAC Chairman. The report shall assess the extent of the BAC’s compliance with the provisions of this IRR-A and areas of improvement in the BAC’s
proceedings.
For this purpose, the BAC shall furnish them a copy of the following documents upon their request:
a. Minutes of related proceedings of BAC meetings;
b. Abstract of Bids;
c. Post-qualification summary report;
d. APP and related PPMP; and
e. Copies of “opened” proposals.
Observers may also give a copy of their report to the Office of the Ombudsman/Resident Ombudsman if the BAC is found to have failed in following the prescribed bidding procedures or for any justifiable and reasonable ground where the award of the contract will not redound to the benefit of the Government as defined in this IRR-A.
2. To sign the abstract of bids if, in their independent observation, the bidding activity conducted by the BAC followed the correct procedure as indicated in this IRR-A; and
3. To sign the post-qualification summary report if, in their independent observation, the BAC followed the procedure as indicated in this IRR-A and that the observer is amenable to the results of the post-qualification. Hope this will Help. Cool
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Re: What should be the relationship of the the BAC and the BAC Secretariat?

Post by jcolas on Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:43 pm

Thank you for that pointers Sir. We really have to be constantly reading our bible in procurement in order that we can really be the Administrative support of the BAC. Thank you again.
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