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Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

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Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by riddler on Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:40 am

34.2. Within three (3) calendar days from receipt by the bidder of the notice from the BAC
that the bidder has the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, the bidder shall
submit the following documentary requirements to the BAC:
a) Tax clearance;
b) Latest income and business tax returns;
c) Certificate of PhilGEPS Registration; and
d) Other appropriate licenses and permits required by law and stated in the
Bidding Documents.

Failure to submit the above requirements on time or a finding against the veracity of
such shall be ground for the forfeiture of the bid security and disqualify the bidder
for award.


What's the raTIONALE? The GPPB simplify the process for Eligibility and Opening of Bids only to be required later at the post qualification? Why cant we just include this requirements in the Eligibility documents?
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:02 pm

ruel wrote:34.2. Within three (3) calendar days from receipt by the bidder of the notice from the BAC
that the bidder has the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, the bidder shall
submit the following documentary requirements to the BAC:
a) Tax clearance;
b) Latest income and business tax returns;
c) Certificate of PhilGEPS Registration; and
d) Other appropriate licenses and permits required by law and stated in the
Bidding Documents.

Failure to submit the above requirements on time or a finding against the veracity of
such shall be ground for the forfeiture of the bid security and disqualify the bidder
for award.


What's the raTIONALE? The GPPB simplify the process for Eligibility and Opening of Bids only to be required later at the post qualification? Why cant we just include this requirements in the Eligibility documents?

I think the main RATIONALE is to give the prospective bidders enough time to comply with the requirements. Moving the submission, and only if he is declared the LCRB/HRRB, to a later date would give him enough time to secure all the documents rather have them required as part of the eligibility/techncial envelope.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by riddler on Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:44 pm

RDV wrote:

I think the main RATIONALE is to give the prospective bidders enough time to comply with the requirements. Moving the submission, and only if he is declared the LCRB/HRRB, to a later date would give him enough time to secure all the documents rather have them required as part of the eligibility/techncial envelope.

I think it is going back again to the tedious process like the old IRR. The Bidders are already well informed of the requirements since the new IRR allows them to submit their documents from the start of posting/advertisement until the Bid opening (almost 17 cd).

Another thing, di kaya lalong ma dagdagan trabaho ng BAC Secretariat natin pag marami pa rin papeles ang i-submit before the Award?
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:07 pm

[quote="ruel"]
RDV wrote:
x x x
Another thing, di kaya lalong ma dagdagan trabaho ng BAC Secretariat natin pag marami pa rin papeles ang i-submit before the Award?
Korek ka jan!

After several browsing on the Revised IRR, what I noticed is that the Secretariat will be more actively participating the proceedings even on the post qual. Kasi dati, post qual is a concentrated job for BAC and TWG. But now, it really will call another precious time for the BAC Secretariat to accept and circulate the post qual docs.

Mukhang duduguin tayo dito, aguy, aguy! Crying or Very sad
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:51 pm

ruel wrote:34.2. Within three (3) calendar days from receipt by the bidder of the notice from the BAC
that the bidder has the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, the bidder shall
submit the following documentary requirements to the BAC:
a) Tax clearance;
b) Latest income and business tax returns;
c) Certificate of PhilGEPS Registration; and
d) Other appropriate licenses and permits required by law and stated in the
Bidding Documents.

Failure to submit the above requirements on time or a finding against the veracity of
such shall be ground for the forfeiture of the bid security and disqualify the bidder
for award.


What's the raTIONALE? The GPPB simplify the process for Eligibility and Opening of Bids only to be required later at the post qualification? Why cant we just include this requirements in the Eligibility documents?

The question now, why calendar days was used instead of working days, this will cause for additional exploitation for abuse in the implementation of the new revised IRR-GPRA of 9184.( kailangan ba imemorize yan Smile ) I think, there would be no problem for those bidder within the locality,then how about those for out of town? Maybe the GPPB have their reasons in setting up the limit to 3 calendar days, hopefully they can explain it.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:00 pm

sunriser431 wrote:The question now, why calendar days was used instead of working days, this will cause for additional exploitation for abuse in the implementation of the new revised IRR-GPRA of 9184.( kailangan ba imemorize yan Smile ) I think, there would be no problem for those bidder within the locality,then how about those for out of town? Maybe the GPPB have their reasons in setting up the limit to 3 calendar days, hopefully they can explain it.

I think even in IRR-A, when it pertains to number of days (whether as a deadline or the minimum or maximum period from one activity to another), it always pertain to calendar days rather than working days. However, if the deadline falls on a weekend or a holiday, the deadline shall fall on the next working day.

Now, why only 3 c.d. from declaration from of LCB/HRB for the submission of the additional documents? You need to educate the bidders that they just don't have only 3 c.d. to submit the requirements. Originally, the documents are required to be submitted with the eligibility/bid documents.

In the revised IRR he has a longer time to secure and/or prepare the documents, unless he does nothing but wait until he is declared the LCB/HRB before he secures the documents. You need to impress on the bidders that it is done to give them more time to secure the documents and they should not wait until one is informed as the LCB/HRB before he starts securing the same.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by mbdr on Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:44 pm

Yes , I aggree with RDV n this.

This will also give more time to bidders so that they can prepare other docs. Useless naman kung ang lahat na bidders are e-re require nating ng mga ganoong docs (ang dami ... ) at hindi naman cila manalo. I thinks sirs, lalong dumami ang magka interest na mag join sa bidding sa paraang ito. well just see.....

Ang sa akin yung 2% bid security from 1%..... ngeeehhh. Ano kaya ang reaction nga small suppliers /bidders... ?

Another thing sirs, yung sa pre-bid conference , naka mention sa bagong IRR na only those who have purchased the Bidding Documents shall be allowed to participate in the pre-bid conference andraise or submit written queries or clarifications. Parang bitin ako sir.... what (sakaling supplier ako) if am interested to participate in the bidding and failed to attend the pre-bid, do I have the chance to drop my bid on the schedule date of bidding? What if I have something to clarify? Then in the minutes, hindi masyadong na explain or elaborate?

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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:03 pm

mbdr wrote:Yes , I aggree with RDV n this.

This will also give more time to bidders so that they can prepare other docs. Useless naman kung ang lahat na bidders are e-re require nating ng mga ganoong docs (ang dami ... ) at hindi naman cila manalo. I thinks sirs, lalong dumami ang magka interest na mag join sa bidding sa paraang ito. well just see.....
That was the intention and it was the general consensus gathered during the consultation process done by GPPB. If you will recall, in the first draft of the IRR, those documents are to be submitted before issuance of NOA, but the general comment is that it would prolong the process and instead those documents can be submitted during the post-qualification process so that the same could also be subject to the post-qualification verification.

mbdr wrote:Ang sa akin yung 2% bid security from 1%..... ngeeehhh. Ano kaya ang reaction nga small suppliers /bidders... ?
Refundable naman kaya siguro they would not take issue. It would also separate, hopefully, the serious bidders from the not so serious onesw.

mbdr wrote:Another thing sirs, yung sa pre-bid conference , naka mention sa bagong IRR na only those who have purchased the Bidding Documents shall be allowed to participate in the pre-bid conference andraise or submit written queries or clarifications. Parang bitin ako sir.... what (sakaling supplier ako) if am interested to participate in the bidding and failed to attend the pre-bid, do I have the chance to drop my bid on the schedule date of bidding? What if I have something to clarify? Then in the minutes, hindi masyadong na explain or elaborate?
Attendance to pre-bid conference is still not mandatory, so if the bidder is not able to attend the pre-bid, he can still submit his bid. If he needs to be clarified, and he was not able to attend the pre-bid, he can submit a written request for clarification provided it is received by the BAC at least 10 c.d. before the deadline for the submission of bids. I think, the same pa rin naman sa IRR-A.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by mbdr on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:25 am

Ah , ok sir! Thanks, Gdam.

Sir RDV, were you there in Cebu during the consultation -seminar of GPPB? Last February/09?

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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:29 am

mbdr wrote:Ah , ok sir! Thanks, Gdam.

Sir RDV, were you there in Cebu during the consultation -seminar of GPPB? Last February/09?

I was not there, mbdr. My area of responsibility was region 4a. The consultation in Metro Manila for LGUs was done at the Discovery Suites also last February.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by mbdr on Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:00 am

ah ok sir. Sa mga practitioners from Visayas pala yung sa Cebu, Midtown. Ang mga revisions sa IRR ay ang mga concerns and issues raised during the consultation.

We're expecting for a series of seminars para sa lahat for the revised IRR. Pero for me sir, mas mabuti ang forum na to coz pag may mga questions and clarifications tayu, ma answer naman to kaagad. At mas satisfied ako dahil sa marami tayong mag share. Wala pang gastos on the part sa govt, d ba sir?

K sir. Goodluck nalang para sa ating lahat for this revised IRR. I hope hindi kayu titigil mag share sa inyung good ideas and expertise sa law.

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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by riddler on Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:33 pm

RDV wrote: In the revised IRR he has a longer time to secure and/or prepare the documents, unless he does nothing but wait until he is declared the LCB/HRB before he secures the documents. You need to impress on the bidders that it is done to give them more time to secure the documents and they should not wait until one is informed as the LCB/HRB before he starts securing the same.

mbdr wrote: This will also give more time to bidders so that they can prepare other docs. Useless naman kung ang lahat na bidders are e-re require nating ng mga ganoong docs (ang dami ... ) at hindi naman cila manalo. I thinks sirs, lalong dumami ang magka interest na mag join sa bidding sa paraang ito. well just see.....

a) Tax clearance;
b) Latest income and business tax returns;
c) Certificate of PhilGEPS Registration;

The above requirements are readily available from the suppliers/contractors which can be provided within 17 calendar days para maisama sa Eligibility/TEchnical Documents. Sa nakkita ko parang wala pa ring pagbbago sa proseso dahil pabalik-balik pa rin at pinpahirapan ang BAc Sec sa documentation, mas maganda kung after the perfection of the Contract ang issa-submit ng winning bidder eh performance security na lang, mas madali pa sa BAc sec ang trbaho.


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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:01 pm

RDV wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:The question now, why calendar days was used instead of working days, this will cause for additional exploitation for abuse in the implementation of the new revised IRR-GPRA of 9184.( kailangan ba imemorize yan Smile ) I think, there would be no problem for those bidder within the locality,then how about those for out of town? Maybe the GPPB have their reasons in setting up the limit to 3 calendar days, hopefully they can explain it.

I think even in IRR-A, when it pertains to number of days (whether as a deadline or the minimum or maximum period from one activity to another), it always pertain to calendar days rather than working days. However, if the deadline falls on a weekend or a holiday, the deadline shall fall on the next working day.

Now, why only 3 c.d. from declaration from of LCB/HRB for the submission of the additional documents? You need to educate the bidders that they just don't have only 3 c.d. to submit the requirements. Originally, the documents are required to be submitted with the eligibility/bid documents.

In the revised IRR he has a longer time to secure and/or prepare the documents, unless he does nothing but wait until he is declared the LCB/HRB before he secures the documents. You need to impress on the bidders that it is done to give them more time to secure the documents and they should not wait until one is informed as the LCB/HRB before he starts securing the same.


Excerpts from Section 34.2 of the revised IRR
Within three (3) calendar days from receipt by the bidder of the notice from the BAC that the bidder has the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, the bidder shall submit the following documentary requirements to the BAC:
a) xxxx
b) xxxx
The BAC after determining the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, How will this notice be communicated, in writing or verbal? since the procurment timeline activities is specific. refer to stage 5 of Annex C (earliest possible time) of the revised IRR of 9184 for additional info. Sir RDV, another clarification, what if the bidder is not present during the opening of the bid? remember the notice to the bidder has to be communicated after stage 5 meaning same day as the opening of the bid.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by riddler on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:14 pm

sunriser431 wrote:

Excerpts from Section 34.2 of the revised IRR
Within three (3) calendar days from [b]receipt by the bidder of the notice from the BAC [/b]that the bidder has the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, the bidder shall submit the following documentary requirements to the BAC:
a) xxxx
b) xxxx
The BAC after determining the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, How will this notice be communicated, in writing or verbal? since the procurment timeline activities is specific. refer to stage 5 of Annex C (earliest possible time) of the revised IRR of 9184 for additional info. Sir RDV.

I think in this kind of process, it is the BAC's responsibility how to notify the Bidder within 3cd. It could either be sent through registered mail or thru its authorized representative or other forms of media. What is important is the date of the receipt of the Bidder of the said Notice which would require action within a specified period of time.

sunriser431 wrote:

,x x x another clarification, what if the bidder is not present during the opening of the bid? remember the notice to the bidder has to be communicated after stage 5 meaning same day as the opening of the bid.

Section 29 of the new IRR. Bid Opening
The BAC shall open the bids at the time, date, and place specified in the Bidding
Documents. The bidders or their duly authorized representatives may attend the opening of
bids.
The BAC shall adopt a procedure for ensuring the integrity, security, and
confidentiality of all submitted bids. The minutes of the bid opening shall be made available
to the public upon written request and payment of a specified fee to recover cost of
materials.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:57 pm

ruel wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:

Excerpts from Section 34.2 of the revised IRR
Within three (3) calendar days from receipt by the bidder of the notice from the BAC [/b]that the bidder has the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, the bidder shall submit the following documentary requirements to the BAC:
a) xxxx
b) xxxx
The BAC after determining the Lowest Calculated Bid or Highest Rated Bid, How will this notice be communicated, in writing or verbal? since the procurment timeline activities is specific. refer to stage 5 of Annex C (earliest possible time) of the revised IRR of 9184 for additional info. Sir RDV.

I think in this kind of process, [b]it is the BAC's responsibility how to notify the Bidder within 3cd
. It could either be sent through registered mail or thru its authorized representative or other forms of media. What is important is the date of the receipt of the Bidder of the said Notice which would require action within a specified period of time.

sunriser431 wrote:

,x x x another clarification, what if the bidder is not present during the opening of the bid? remember the notice to the bidder has to be communicated after stage 5 meaning same day as the opening of the bid.

Section 29 of the new IRR. Bid Opening
The BAC shall open the bids at the time, date, and place specified in the Bidding
Documents. The bidders or their duly authorized representatives may attend the opening of
bids.
The BAC shall adopt a procedure for ensuring the integrity, security, and
confidentiality of all submitted bids. The minutes of the bid opening shall be made available
to the public upon written request and payment of a specified fee to recover cost of
materials.

I believe, the 3 calendar days given is for the bidder not for the BAC.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by riddler on Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:20 pm

the action must be made by the bidder [u]within 3 cal days upon receiving the notice.[/u], meaning to say the action before the receipt of the notice must be made by the BAC. The BAC could either make notice within 15 cal days, at any moment of receipt from the bidder, he/she must act within 3 cal days.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:03 pm

ruel wrote:the action must be made by the bidder within 3 cal days upon receiving the notice., meaning to say the action before the receipt of the notice must be made by the BAC. The BAC could either make notice within 15 cal days, at any moment of receipt from the bidder, he/she must act within 3 cal days.
Agree with Engr. Ruel. The "three (3) calendar days" is the bidder's deadline. But please also check the approved latest timelines for a particular stage of procurement as also (to be) reflected on the PPMP/APP. Fifteen (15) days may be very long. The determination of the LCB/HRB (on bid evaluation) is allowed only for seven (7) calendar days. Very Happy
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by shobe on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:50 pm

What's the raTIONALE? The GPPB simplify the process for Eligibility and Opening of Bids only to be required later at the post qualification? Why cant we just include this requirements in the Eligibility documents?

I totally agree with the view of Sir RDV that the rationale for such amendment is to give more time for bidders to prepare. Likewise, if I am not mistaken, this is one of the few mechanisms (the Eligibility check i mean) often complained about by the donor institutions (WB, JBIC and ADB). As such, to pacify them...i mean to "harmonize" the procurement rules, this amendment had to be made.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by riddler on Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:09 pm

ha ha ha (no offense ha). the gppb revised the process to pacify them(donors)?... its going back again to bureucratic process shob.. the documents i mentioned above are simple ones which the Bidder can easily provide within 17 cd (isn't that enough time for them?) to be included in their Eligibility/Techincal Docs.
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by shobe on Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:31 pm

None taken ruel.

However, please take into account that the revised IRR is a "harmonized" edition. Compromises had to be made...and rest-assured, it wasn't just the government which had to sacrifice a thing or two in its rules. Anyways, the possibility to amend the rules (if it will eventually not work to the government's advantage) is not a remote possibility. I think the most that we can do now is be positive that the rules will bring about change which will be for the betterment of the government's procurement system.
Wink
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:01 pm

ruel wrote:ha ha ha (no offense ha). the gppb revised the process to pacify them(donors)?... its going back again to bureucratic process shob.. the documents i mentioned above are simple ones which the Bidder can easily provide within 17 cd (isn't that enough time for them?) to be included in their Eligibility/Techincal Docs.
I think for local bidders, there's no excuse why they can't present the eligibility documents en pronto. I have to agree to Engr.Ruel on that premise. But I think the IRR is harmonized to accommodate foreign funds and foreign bidders. The "long list" of eligibility requirements is not foreign-bidder friendly as the documents may be delayed reasonably in the old timeline. Placing the rest of documents in the post qual shall give more time for foreign bidder's preparation, domestic bidders must not worry 'coz in most cases, they themselves are also cramming sometimes in producing the same.

Anyway, we'll get used to it na rin (siguro) later Very Happy
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by shobe on Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:32 am

I somehow agree with the view of engrjhez. To add, as procurement practioners and government workers who are hungry for reform (for the better that is) we should be proud because the revised IRR (if i'm not mistaken) is the first in Asia. Note that the donor institutions are slowly realizing the need to make use of country procurement systems (meaning not to force their procurement rules on the loans and grants they give different countries) ...and if the Philippine Government can prove that adoption of country systems will eventually work, then we have done a great deal for other developing countries as well. cheers
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determining LCRB after post qualification

Post by lowie on Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:18 pm

in case the bidder declared with LCB fails the post qualifcation, the bac shall post qualify the second LCB, when the latter passes post qualification, he shall be declared as the LCRB.... what if the bid being offered by the second LCB is that much higher than that of the first LCB, does the BAC has the legal basis to mandate the second bidder to lower his bid similar of the 1st LCB who failed in the post qualification. Please clarify the matter with me....
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:21 am

lowie wrote:in case the bidder declared with LCB fails the post qualifcation, the bac shall post qualify the second LCB, when the latter passes post qualification, he shall be declared as the LCRB.... what if the bid being offered by the second LCB is that much higher than that of the first LCB, does the BAC has the legal basis to mandate the second bidder to lower his bid similar of the 1st LCB who failed in the post qualification. Please clarify the matter with me....

I understand that we would like to obtain the contract price most advantageous to the government but as far as the procedure is concerned, we cannot do anything to improve one's bid (because that is not allowed). The only case where price negotiations would be allowed is for consulting services specifically on quality-based evaluation procedure (Sec.34.4).

Very Happy
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

Post by lowie on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:25 pm

thanks for the enlightenment...i appreciate it very much that you took time to clarify my inquiries.....
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Re: Post Qualification requirements/New IRR

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