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BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

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BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:06 am

Initially, all original documents pertaining to the bidding process are submitted to the BAC thru the Secretariat. The Secretariat is in charge of safekeeping such documents until the award according to IRR-RA.9184.

The Accounting Office requests all original document be attached to the award for payment of the winning bidder.

The COA requires original documents too, whether on pre-audit or post audit, to be forwarded in their end.

Now, the question is... do we really need to provide three (3) original documents for all of them to satisfy the "required custodianship"?
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Original Documents - Who gets to keep it?

Post by dlsn on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:04 pm

Reminds me somehow of custody of evidence in a CSI episode. Smile I think we can get a flow of the custody of documents from your question, and I imagine it to look like this:

  1. The BAC Secretariat holds the original documents until award is made.
  2. BAC Sec transfers the original documents to the Accounting Office for processing of payment.
  3. Accounting Office then transfers it to COA when the latter conducts its audit.
  4. Should the COA now, after its audit, return the original documents to the BAC Secretariat?

Also, there is no specific rule on this in the IRR-A. Do you think we should include it there or a joint issuance by COA and GPPB is sufficient?
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by Mikel on Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:48 pm

For proper guidance - quoting partly hereunder Sec. 2(1), Art. IX-D, 1987 Phil. Constitution:

"x x x. It [COA] shall keep the general accounts of the Gov't and, for such period as may be provided by law, preserve the vouchers and other supporting papers pertaining thereto."

Sad thing is, COA field offices (actually squatters lang kami sa offices ng mga audited agencies namin) do not have enough storerooms to preserve these vouchers, kaya masyadong magulo ang bodegas namin.
No

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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:33 pm

dlsn wrote:
  1. The BAC Secretariat holds the original documents until award is made.
  2. BAC Sec transfers the original documents to the Accounting Office for processing of payment.
  3. Accounting Office then transfers it to COA when the latter conducts its audit.
  4. Should the COA now, after its audit, return the original documents to the BAC Secretariat?

Also, there is no specific rule on this in the IRR-A. Do you think we should include it there or a joint issuance by COA and GPPB is sufficient?
There is no problem with No.4 above. If the law says the BAC cannot be required to keep the documents after the award, suites well. What we are (trying) to do now is to reduce the unnecessary reproduction cost of documents. All papers produced by the BAC (including the registry records of eligibility) is fine. As to the abstracts, bid docs, bidder's bond, etc., it fills up the office with no definite use after the bids and awards process.

I think a joint issuance of COA and GPPB will be sufficient to serve the purpose.

As to Mikel, I hope you could visit our office one of these days. The BAC (Secretariat) Office is only half as big as the Auditor's.Very Happy Shocked Very Happy


Last edited by engrjhez on Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : misplaced parenthesis)
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FYI

Post by shobe on Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:31 am

[justify]Just an added info re who gets to keep the original documents pertaining to bidding...

Last February 12, 2009, Circular 2009-001 was issued , reiterating the mandatory submission of copies of government contracts, purchase orders and other supporting documents to the Commission on Audit.

Likewise specified are the sanctions in case there is failure to comply. Shocked

P.S.

Although I totally agree with dlsn's proposal for a joint GPPB-COA resolution on the issue presented, i hope the latter's independence as a constitutional office will not be an issue. Neutral I believe there are instances when the latter refuses to issue circulars/resolutions jointly with other government agencies. I hope this will be an exception.
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:58 pm

Thanks Shobe!

Nice to have some young lady lawyers here. I hope we could have you for a longer balitaktakan.
Very Happy
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by The Examiner on Wed May 13, 2009 11:58 am

As supporting documents for disbursements, COA generally requires original docs such as ORs, plane/bus tickets, etc. However, for procurement related disbursements, i think COA is only requiring authenticated copy of the contract and contract documents (plans & Specs, bid bond, performance bond, etc.)
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by engrjhez® on Thu May 14, 2009 12:16 am

The Examiner wrote:As supporting documents for disbursements, COA generally requires original docs such as ORs, plane/bus tickets, etc. However, for procurement related disbursements, i think COA is only requiring authenticated copy of the contract and contract documents (plans & Specs, bid bond, performance bond, etc.)
Can the BAC Secretariat dispose the original copies of the bidding documents without a copy for reasons of practicality? Are there other instances that after the award (and consequent payment of supplier/contractor), the BAC Secretariat shall be required to made available (to anyone upon request) the copies of bidding documents?

Right now, we decided to keep everything EXCEPT the bidding documents issued, accomplished, and submitted by bidders (which are forwarded to the accounting, and finally to the COA). Only the rest of documents produced by the BAC shall be kept (like resolutions, minutes, reports, registry etc.).

Are we missing something? scratch
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by aljune70 on Mon May 18, 2009 5:53 pm

In our case, our accounting department requires the submission of original documents, which will also be submitted to the COA. The COA, however, accepts even authenticated copies for their file. As BAC secretariat, i also keep a file for the BAC to use as reference, just in case... Very Happy Cool
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by sunriser431 on Tue May 19, 2009 1:01 am

For us GOCCs the following original documents are required to be submitted to the Accounting Department and form part as attachment to the Purchase order.

1. PPMP,PR. IAEB,Suppemental bid bulletin,Request for Quotation, TWG post qualification report, Abstract of bids as read and Abstract of bid as calculated, Philippine bid documents, Notice of post qualification, BAC resolution, minutes, Notice to award,Contract agreements,Performance security, Notice to proceed.
2. Certified true copies from the originals to be submitted to COA. (all documents refer to #1) per COA Circular 2009-001
3. Copies for BAC Secretariat ( All documents mention in item 1 for future reference)
4. Other documents required Inspection reports, Receiving reports, Delivery receipts, invoices etc.
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by riddler on Tue May 19, 2009 9:15 am

now, balik ulit tayo sa "chicken and egg" engrjhez. Who keeps the Original Bid Documents? this has been the a million dollar question already for the COA, Accounting, and the Procuring Entity.
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by sunriser431 on Tue May 19, 2009 3:34 pm

Section 29 (GAAM volume 1) Preservation of Vouchers (quoting partially)
Auditors or designated records custodian in all auditing units(COA) shall have the custody,and be responsible for the safe-keeking and preservation of the paid expense vouchers, journal vouchers, stubs of treasury warrants or checks, reports of collections and disbursements and similar documents, together with their respective supporting documents (Sec. 43(4), PD 1445
Auditors shall preserve the vouchers and documents enumerated in the preceding paragraph for a period of ten years from the date of payment/collecton (Sec 26, PD 1445). cheers
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by riddler on Tue May 19, 2009 4:33 pm

thanks for the info. sunriser, but i am confused of the safekeeping of Original Documents. RE: Bid docs, IEAB, Contracts and addendums, plans, minutes, etc. etc. I believed these documents shall be attached to the requirements of the GAAM you mentioned, Would the COA or ACcounting allow certified machine copies as attched to the voucher on your end? coz' our COA and Accountant view it differenly, all originals should have been attached to the vouchers daw? kaya nga parang "chicken and egg" according to engrjhez. confused
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by engrjhez® on Tue May 19, 2009 7:39 pm

ruel t. wrote:thanks for the info. sunriser, but i am confused of the safekeeping of Original Documents. RE: Bid docs, IEAB, Contracts and addendums, plans, minutes, etc. etc. I believed these documents shall be attached to the requirements of the GAAM you mentioned, Would the COA or ACcounting allow certified machine copies as attched to the voucher on your end? coz' our COA and Accountant view it differenly, all originals should have been attached to the vouchers daw? kaya nga parang "chicken and egg" according to engrjhez. confused
That should be a BILLION DOLLAR question now.

I am into proposition that: sige kung gusto nila, sa kanila na - wag nang hahanapin sa BAC kapag nai-forward na at next stage (like sa Accounting and ganun din ang Accounting sa Auditor). This is to minimize unnecessary duplication of papers. The accountability on the safekeeping of bid documents must be where the stage it is actually processed.

Now, about sa minutes, BAC resolution, etc. which are made and accomplished by the BAC, ok lang na merong original or file copy ang BAC (anyway kami naman talaga gumawa nun). The rest must be sa COA na lahat.

Say natin? Twisted Evil
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by sunriser431 on Wed May 20, 2009 12:00 pm

Procurement records
The GPRA is silient on the list of the procurement records that must be kept by the government agency and what is available for public including conditions for access.

This records should include but not limited to APP, PPMPs, Notices of bidding opportunities, bidding documents and addenda, bid opening records, bid evaluation reports, BAC resolutions, motion filed by bidders and outcomes, contract agreeements and addenda/amendments, claims and dispute resolutions, final payments and disbursement records.

I do believe every procuring entity has the above records but these are not integrated or consolidated to form part of the procurement records. Most procurement related records are available with the BAC Secretariat. the contract related records are with the Legal management office while Infrustructure/civil Technical/Plans specification project are with the Planning Management office or end-user unit, the disbursement and payment records are with the finance Management office. This are the gray areas to be address properly. Just sharing my thoughts and experience. Peace
study Very Happy
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Re: BAC Secretariat/Accounting/COA -who must keep the original documents?

Post by sunriser431 on Thu May 28, 2009 3:10 pm

ruel t. wrote:thanks for the info. sunriser, but i am confused of the safekeeping of Original Documents. RE: Bid docs, IEAB, Contracts and addendums, plans, minutes, etc. etc. I believed these documents shall be attached to the requirements of the GAAM you mentioned, Would the COA or ACcounting allow certified machine copies as attched to the voucher on your end? coz' our COA and Accountant view it differenly, all originals should have been attached to the vouchers daw? kaya nga parang "chicken and egg" according to engrjhez. confused

Let us keep it simple
The PBD for the procurement of Goods Section 111- Bid Data Sheet providing the specific information and requirement the criteria that will apply for the particular bid. You can use this ITB clause 23.2 which reads" Each bidder shall submit one(1) original and (insert number of copies required) copies of its Eligibility Documents, Technical Proposal, and Financial proposal " The number of copies depend on your end and needs. For us, the original copy will forwarded to Finance for processing of payment, likewise after the transaction completed it shall be turnover to the Resident auditor for safekeeping.For the Procurement of Civil works we do follow the same procedure. With this, you could save on office supplies, xerox etc. Sharing my experince, hope this will help cheers
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