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CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by wild_card on Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:41 pm

of the five (5) members of the BAC, only the chairman, vice chairman and one member are present. would it be okay if the chairman or the vice chairman can do a second motion?
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:24 pm

wild_card wrote:of the five (5) members of the BAC, only the chairman, vice chairman and one member are present. would it be okay if the chairman or the vice chairman can do a second motion?

I personally don't see any problem with that. However, as far as voting in concerned, the IRR provides that the Chairman or, in his/her absence, the Vice-Chairman shall vote only in case of a tie.
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:08 pm

If there exists "alternate-BAC members" as designated by the HOPE (consider an LGU case), does it follow that if their principals are either Chair or Vice Chair, they inherit the same assignment?

If a BAC member is not present, his or her alternate member may be placed in substitute. Suppose we have a case where there are five (5) BAC members and five (5) BAC alternates (they are 10 all in all, right?). In a very unique scenario, three (3) BAC members (provided that not both of the chair and vice chair are together) with their alternates are not available to attend the procurement proceedings. Can an alternate of a "present" BAC member be placed in substitute of those who are absent for the purposes of quorum?
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:30 pm

engrjhez wrote:
If there exists "alternate-BAC members" as designated by the HOPE (consider an LGU case), does it follow that if their principals are either Chair or Vice Chair, they inherit the same assignment?

If a BAC member is not present, his or her alternate member may be placed in substitute. Suppose we have a case where there are five (5) BAC members and five (5) BAC alternates (they are 10 all in all, right?). In a very unique scenario, three (3) BAC members (provided that not both of the chair and vice chair are together) with their alternates are not available to attend the procurement proceedings. Can an alternate of a "present" BAC member be placed in substitute of those who are absent for the purposes of quorum?
Very Happy

I raised the same issue, engrjhez, during our just concluded trainers' training (Sep. 2-4 at Linden Suites). Let us go over the following new provision in the revised IRR:

"11.2.4. The Head of the Procuring Entity may designate alternate members to the BAC, who shall have the same qualifications as their principals as set in the Act and this IRR. The alternate members shall attend meetings of the BAC and receive the corresponding honoraria, whenever their principals are absent. The alternate members shall have the same term as their principals. The accountability of the principal and the alternate member shall be limited to their respective acts and decisions.

I am of the impression that when that new provision was proposed the discussion was focused to the situations of NGAs and GOCCs, and not of the LGUs. There might be an oversight on the part of those who framed the revised IRR that there is already a different way of determining who the BAC Chair and BAC Vice Chair will be. Unlike in the case of NGAs/GOCCs/GFIs in which the BAC Chair/Vice Chair are directly designated by the HOPE, in the case of LGUs, they are elected by the BAC members among themselves.

To answer your question, engrjhez, please consider the following:

First, the designation of alternate BAC members is just an option that an LGU may do. It is not mandatory on the part of the HOPE to designate alternate BAC members. The designation of alternate BAC members is to address mainly the problem of getting a quorum.

Second, if ever the HOPE designates alternate BAC members, there should be a one-to-one correspondence between the alternate BAC member and their respective principals. In other words, an alternate BAC member could only alternate for his/her principal and nobody else.

Third, since the regular BAC members (in the case of LGUs) elect among themselves who will be their BAC Chair and Vice-Chair, the alternates of the BAC Chair and the Vice-Chair may also be the alternate BAC Chair and alternate Vice-Chair. In the case of NGAs/GOCCs, the HOPE may directly designate the alternate BAC Chair and alternate Vice Chair.

Fourth, in case the BAC Chair is absent, between the Vice Chair and the alternate BAC Chair, the latter shall take precedence. Hence, the alternate BAC Chair shall preside, instead of the Vice Chair. The alternate BAC Chair should have the same qualifications (at least 3rd ranking) since the revised IRR requires that the alternates have the same qualifications as their principals.

Fifth, there could be other options that the LGU-BACs may adopt. They can come up with their own rules such as the Vice Chair presiding the meeting if the BAC Chair is not around. It should be clear in the rules to avoid any problems in the future.

I know you may still have further clarifications to make, but I hope, in the meantime, I was able to answer your particular questions.
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by engrjhez® on Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:57 am

RDV wrote:
x x x
Fourth, in case the BAC Chair is absent, between the Vice Chair and the alternate BAC Chair, the latter shall take precedence. Hence, the alternate BAC Chair shall preside, instead of the Vice Chair. The alternate BAC Chair should have the same qualifications (at least 3rd ranking) since the revised IRR requires that the alternates have the same qualifications as their principals.

Fifth, there could be other options that the LGU-BACs may adopt. They can come up with their own rules such as the Vice Chair presiding the meeting if the BAC Chair is not around. It should be clear in the rules to avoid any problems in the future.

I know you may still have further clarifications to make, but I hope, in the meantime, I was able to answer your particular questions.

Thanks. That clarifies the first set of issues.

However, the uniqueness of LGUs lead us to next level questions. Suppose the LGU adopts the "alternate BAC members" scheme. Will the term "qualifications" refer to CSC qualifications (assistant dept.head for the dept.head in the same dept.) or does it pertain to equivalent rankings (dept.head for a dept. head only?)

scratch
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:50 pm

engrjhez wrote:
RDV wrote:
x x x
Fourth, in case the BAC Chair is absent, between the Vice Chair and the alternate BAC Chair, the latter shall take precedence. Hence, the alternate BAC Chair shall preside, instead of the Vice Chair. The alternate BAC Chair should have the same qualifications (at least 3rd ranking) since the revised IRR requires that the alternates have the same qualifications as their principals.

Fifth, there could be other options that the LGU-BACs may adopt. They can come up with their own rules such as the Vice Chair presiding the meeting if the BAC Chair is not around. It should be clear in the rules to avoid any problems in the future.

I know you may still have further clarifications to make, but I hope, in the meantime, I was able to answer your particular questions.

Thanks. That clarifies the first set of issues.

However, the uniqueness of LGUs lead us to next level questions. Suppose the LGU adopts the "alternate BAC members" scheme. Will the term "qualifications" refer to CSC qualifications (assistant dept.head for the dept.head in the same dept.) or does it pertain to equivalent rankings (dept.head for a dept. head only?)

scratch

The term "qualifications", I suppose, refers to the qualifications that the principal should possess, which are "unquestionable integrity and procurement proficiency" and the required ranking, such as 3rd ranking for the BAC Chair.
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:51 pm

RDV wrote:
The term "qualifications", I suppose, refers to the qualifications that the principal should possess, which are "unquestionable integrity and procurement proficiency" and the required ranking, such as 3rd ranking for the BAC Chair.

Consider another case. The rule provides (for LGUs) that one (1) representative from each department under Office of the Mayor be designated as BAC members. For the purposes of following this rule, does this mean we cannot designate assistants or next in rank officers under the same department to be the alternate BAC members? Smile
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by msm326 on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:38 am

Good Day Forum Members..........
This is worth all the queries I had in my mind but another situation can the LGU designate only 3 alternates and let them be alternate for members only? Looking on the opinion that Chairman and Vice Chairman could have alternates too (what if they are not technically well verse with the provisions of RA9184? (considering the manpower we have in the LGU optimum utilization of personnel is an alternative for LGUs .
Can we make a guidelines that these alternates would be acting on the three members while the elected chairman and vice chairman would not have any alternates so that they could immensely internalize their roles on the procurement proceedings and not hand it over to the one is vigilant to understand and learn the provisions?

I am also waiting for the query of engrjhez
thank you.......
msm326 Very Happy
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:04 pm

engrjhez wrote:
RDV wrote:
The term "qualifications", I suppose, refers to the qualifications that the principal should possess, which are "unquestionable integrity and procurement proficiency" and the required ranking, such as 3rd ranking for the BAC Chair.

Consider another case. The rule provides (for LGUs) that one (1) representative from each department under Office of the Mayor be designated as BAC members. For the purposes of following this rule, does this mean we cannot designate assistants or next in rank officers under the same department to be the alternate BAC members? Smile

I believe designating the assistants or next in rank officers as alternate BAC members will not be contrary to the rules.

Again, as far as the qualifications are considered, very general naman; i.e., "unquestionable integrity and procurement proficiency" and the required ranking. As regular BAC member, the assistants to department heads would possess the required rankings, except only for being Alternate BAC Chair since the requirement is at least 3rd ranking for the regular BAC Chair.
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:10 pm

msm326 wrote:Good Day Forum Members..........
This is worth all the queries I had in my mind but another situation can the LGU designate only 3 alternates and let them be alternate for members only? Looking on the opinion that Chairman and Vice Chairman could have alternates too (what if they are not technically well verse with the provisions of RA9184? (considering the manpower we have in the LGU optimum utilization of personnel is an alternative for LGUs .
Can we make a guidelines that these alternates would be acting on the three members while the elected chairman and vice chairman would not have any alternates so that they could immensely internalize their roles on the procurement proceedings and not hand it over to the one is vigilant to understand and learn the provisions?

I am also waiting for the query of engrjhez
thank you.......
msm326 Very Happy

Msm326. I think that is a very good option that the LGU can consider, where the LCE will designate only the alternates of the regular members and none for the BAC Chair and the Vice Chair. The alternates will attend BAC meetings whenever their principals are absent, while the BAC Vice-Chair will take the place of the BAC Chair whenever the latter is absent.
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:16 am

msm326 wrote:Good Day Forum Members..........
This is worth all the queries I had in my mind but another situation can the LGU designate only 3 alternates and let them be alternate for members only? Looking on the opinion that Chairman and Vice Chairman could have alternates too (what if they are not technically well verse with the provisions of RA9184? (considering the manpower we have in the LGU optimum utilization of personnel is an alternative for LGUs .
Can we make a guidelines that these alternates would be acting on the three members while the elected chairman and vice chairman would not have any alternates so that they could immensely internalize their roles on the procurement proceedings and not hand it over to the one is vigilant to understand and learn the provisions?

I am also waiting for the query of engrjhez
thank you.......
msm326 Very Happy

I am not sure on what you mean by "waiting for the query..." if

1. waiting for me to ask; or
2. waiting for the answer to my last query.

Anyway, the second one should have been answered by RDV now. For no.1, I have nothing to ask but I have something to answer. I have to agree with RDV in his elaborate answer to my previous query:
RDV wrote:
Fifth, there could be other options that the LGU-BACs may adopt. They can come up with their own rules such as the Vice Chair presiding the meeting if the BAC Chair is not around. It should be clear in the rules to avoid any problems in the future.
As the decision for the HOPE to designate alternate BAC members remains optional, the numbers to be assigned remain optional too. If the BAC themselves feel that certain rules be adopted (as long as consistent with the IRR) to ensure order and to eliminate conflicts arising from the presence of alternate BAC members, the BAC is always free to do so.

Time to sleep na talaga...Sleep
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Re: CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN

Post by msm326 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:20 am

Thank you very much Sir RDV and Engrjhez ......
God Bless and Good Day
msm326 Smile
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