Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:07 pm

sunriser431 wrote:
engrjhez wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:The GPPB issued opinion similar to this topic. for reference click this link http://www.gppb.gov.ph/opinions/view_opinion.asp?o_id=587

The opinion only suggests the possibilities under GPRA. However, for academic purposes, let us say the following more specific conditions were present:

  1. The contract amount exceeds that of the thresholds under Annex H (in the prevailing IRR);
  2. No other alternative method applies as per evaluation of the BAC;
  3. The 'musikeros' within 50km radius to the procuring entity do not have the necessary eligibility documents such as AFS, Mayor's Permit for Business, PhilGEPS registration, etc.;
  4. There are no known 'musikeros' outside the 50km that would possibly match the offer price of the musikeros in No.3;

What else can we do on this? Very Happy
engrjhez
if 1,2,3 and 4 not possible, then cash advance of course subject to coa rules and regulations. heh heh, I know there will be violent reactions out there. Rolling Eyes

Is there a cash advance in the equation?

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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:18 pm

WormaixJr wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:
engrjhez wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:The GPPB issued opinion similar to this topic. for reference click this link http://www.gppb.gov.ph/opinions/view_opinion.asp?o_id=587

The opinion only suggests the possibilities under GPRA. However, for academic purposes, let us say the following more specific conditions were present:

  1. The contract amount exceeds that of the thresholds under Annex H (in the prevailing IRR);
  2. No other alternative method applies as per evaluation of the BAC;
  3. The 'musikeros' within 50km radius to the procuring entity do not have the necessary eligibility documents such as AFS, Mayor's Permit for Business, PhilGEPS registration, etc.;
  4. There are no known 'musikeros' outside the 50km that would possibly match the offer price of the musikeros in No.3;

What else can we do on this? Very Happy
engrjhez
if 1,2,3 and 4 not possible, then cash advance of course subject to coa rules and regulations. heh heh, I know there will be violent reactions out there. Rolling Eyes

Is there a cash advance in the equation?
We are trying to explore other possibilities that may not be contrary to coa rules and regulations. or the RA 9184 Cool
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:36 pm

sunriser431 wrote:
engrjhez
if 1,2,3 and 4 not possible, then cash advance of course subject to coa rules and regulations. heh heh, I know there will be violent reactions out there. Rolling Eyes

I do not encourage cash advance as it thereby subject for disallowance if not properly justified.

Actually, you can do a simple market search of 'musikeros' or marching bands from the 'musikeros' themselves. If it so happen that the default mode was set to public bidding, and the failure of such will lose significant time in re-bidding and hence negotiations, the procurement may eventually fail.

Between the fact (if it was indeed a fact) that 'musikeros' within 50km radius can give the price most advantageous to the government except that it cannot comply with the legal documentations, and a 'musikero' from a far far away seeking twice the talent fee (complete documentations), which will be the proper choice for award? Very Happy
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:10 am

engrjhez wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:
engrjhez
if 1,2,3 and 4 not possible, then cash advance of course subject to coa rules and regulations. heh heh, I know there will be violent reactions out there. Rolling Eyes

I do not encourage cash advance as it thereby subject for disallowance if not properly justified.

Actually, you can do a simple market search of 'musikeros' or marching bands from the 'musikeros' themselves. If it so happen that the default mode was set to public bidding, and the failure of such will lose significant time in re-bidding and hence negotiations, the procurement may eventually fail.

Between the fact (if it was indeed a fact) that 'musikeros' within 50km radius can give the price most advantageous to the government except that it cannot comply with the legal documentations, and a 'musikero' from a far far away seeking twice the talent fee (complete documentations), which will be the proper choice for award? Very Happy
In my own personal opinion, I would consider the bidder that complies the eligibility, technical and financial requirements, and it is only logical to award the contract that complies to such requirements. bounce
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Re; hiring of musikeros and katrina halili

Post by charlie brown on Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:35 pm

hi,

Im new to this forum (my 2nd post) and im very interested on the topic involving katrina - i mean in the context of ra 9184 of course Embarassed

My take is that if the PE wantS to hire a particular talent (e.g. katrina - and nobody else but her) then it may do direct contracting. of course the PE will have to justify why it has to be this particular talent (maybe a survey among the constituents to support the claim ehem). Once that is settled then the PE can request for a price quotation and the conditions of sale as stated in sec 50 of the IRR. negotiation can then commence between katrina/her manager and the PE.

i recognize that we may have a problem with small town musikeros with no eligibility docs. though this has been adequately explored in the previous posts. i have one request though... please keep us informed and maybe even invite us once the negotiation with katrina succeeds. Wink
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by engrjhez® on Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:42 pm

charlie brown wrote:hi,

Im new to this forum (my 2nd post) and im very interested on the topic involving katrina - i mean in the context of ra 9184 of course Embarassed

My take is that if the PE wantS to hire a particular talent (e.g. katrina - and nobody else but her) then it may do direct contracting. of course the PE will have to justify why it has to be this particular talent (maybe a survey among the constituents to support the claim ehem). Once that is settled then the PE can request for a price quotation and the conditions of sale as stated in sec 50 of the IRR. negotiation can then commence between katrina/her manager and the PE.

i recognize that we may have a problem with small town musikeros with no eligibility docs. though this has been adequately explored in the previous posts. i have one request though... please keep us informed and maybe even invite us once the negotiation with katrina succeeds. Wink

Thank you for participating this forum "Charlie Brown".

Unfortunately, we can never assert the conditions of Direct Contracting because it is applicable only to goods. 'Katrina' offers service, not herself as goods to be delivered. 'Katrina' is never manufactured from a proprietary source because she by herself is proprietary. The only way to hire talents like that is thru Negotiated Procurement - the question is...by what virtue/section? The nearest I can think of is NGO participation, but needs further exploration.

I am into proposition that "musikeros" need not pass thru the procurement process. Instead, their suppose to be compensation be part of a GRANT similar to financial assistances. It would definitely solve the problem. Very Happy
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by charlie brown on Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:13 pm

I think the intention to buy the services of katrina is akin to buying janitorial or security services - which falls under the definition of Goods. the main difference being that while the level of service required for a janitor or a security guard can be provided by any tom, dick or harry possessing the qualifications required, the client satisfaction for the services offered by katrina (no pun intended) may not be the same as say that of pokwang or willie - who are to my mind also very good entertainers.

To cite an analogy if i may, if the PE wants to hear martin nievera sing, then there is no point in hiring another singer who could perhaps just as well sing the songs. there is a certain intrinsic value that you can get for procuring a particular form of art expres​sion(just as the real mona lisa would not be the same as a fake - even if u cannot distinguish one from the other) From a purely functional point of view you can probably bid for the commissioning of a mona lisa. and you will probably get a painting that is not distinguishable from the original. But if you want the real thing...

that is the point im trying to drive at when it comes to the procurement of art or art forms. I must admit im not very sure though the procurement at issue would qualify as such. But then again if the people really want katrina...
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by riddler on Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:26 am

charlie brown wrote:I think the intention to buy the services of katrina is akin to buying janitorial or security services - which falls under the definition of Goods. the main difference being that while the level of service required for a janitor or a security guard can be provided by any tom, dick or harry possessing the qualifications required, the client satisfaction for the services offered by katrina (no pun intended) may not be the same as say that of pokwang or willie - who are to my mind also very good entertainers.

To cite an analogy if i may, if the PE wants to hear martin nievera sing, then there is no point in hiring another singer who could perhaps just as well sing the songs. there is a certain intrinsic value that you can get for procuring a particular form of art expres​sion(just as the real mona lisa would not be the same as a fake - even if u cannot distinguish one from the other) From a purely functional point of view you can probably bid for the commissioning of a mona lisa. and you will probably get a painting that is not distinguishable from the original. But if you want the real thing...

that is the point im trying to drive at when it comes to the procurement of art or art forms. I must admit im not very sure though the procurement at issue would qualify as such. But then again if the people really want katrina...

charliebrown, i totally agree with your opinion which is the same to what i posted in this forum through this LINK
http://gppb.topicsolutions.net/to-bid-or-not-to-bid-f16/procurement-of-talent-services-t92.htm?highlight=procurement+of+talent+services
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by sunriser431 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:42 pm

engrjhez® wrote:To bid or not to bid?

If not, which procurement method applies?

Does GPRA really apply here?
at last opinion of the GPPB. For similar issues and concern. Follow the LINK cheers
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

Post by Jovinal on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:32 pm

For me the better option is to hire through JOB ORDER.
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Re: Hiring of "Musikeros" for Fluvial/Cultural Celebrations

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