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Creation of BAC

Post by harry on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:33 pm

Gud pm!

Hi! I work with a small water district in Mindanao. My probblem is we cannot create a BAC in our office since we only have five planitilla personnel including the General Manager and the Bookkeeper, which I heard is not qualified to be BAC members. At present, we procured through canvassing/requesting price quotations from at least three suppliers. We often purchase service connection materials such as pipes and fittings amounting to not more than P250,000. Are we violating RA 9184? What are the specific sanctions for not observing such RA? For us small water districts, I think competitive public is impractical. Where can I find the list of commonly used goods that are available at the DBM-PS? i WAS NOT YET able to atttend seminar on RA 9184 due to our very limited funds, so my apology. Please give advice! Thanks!
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by engrjhez® on Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:19 am

Welcome to the forum Harry!

If your agency cannot create a BAC for some valid reasons, you can hire the services of other BACs near your area.

53.6. Procurement Agent. In order to hasten project implementation, Procuring Entities which may not have the proficiency or capability to undertake a particular procurement, as determined by the Head of the Procuring Entity concerned, may request other GOP agencies to undertake such procurement for them, or at their option, recruit and hire consultants or procurement agents to assist them directly and/or train their staff in the management of the procurement function. x x x
Regardless of the amount, the general rule is always public bidding but you could always resort to alternative methods if the conditions warrants so.

Please refer to PS website for their online catalog or you can always call them for actual availability of supplies.

If you have not attended any seminar on RA.9184, I believe it's time you start to plan one as the feared sanction of non-compliance is a criminal case punishable by imprisonment from 6 years 1 day to 15 years. Very Happy
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:46 am

harry wrote:Gud pm!

Hi! I work with a small water district in Mindanao. My probblem is we cannot create a BAC in our office since we only have five planitilla personnel including the General Manager and the Bookkeeper, which I heard is not qualified to be BAC members. At present, we procured through canvassing/requesting price quotations from at least three suppliers. We often purchase service connection materials such as pipes and fittings amounting to not more than P250,000. Are we violating RA 9184? What are the specific sanctions for not observing such RA? For us small water districts, I think competitive public is impractical. Where can I find the list of commonly used goods that are available at the DBM-PS? i WAS NOT YET able to atttend seminar on RA 9184 due to our very limited funds, so my apology. Please give advice! Thanks!
Welcome to the forum Harry
Under Section 5(t) of the revised IRR of RA#9184 in the case of GOCCs, the head of the Procuring Entity refers to the governing board or its duly authorized official. For Local water District I believe you are being regulated by PD 198, maybe you could ask/seek assistance from LWUA. Hope this might help. bounce
For additional readings click this link for reference http://www.lwua.gov.ph/pd_198/Provincial%20Water%20Utilities%20Act%20of%201973%20(PD%20198)%20complete.pdf


Last edited by sunriser431 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : link updated)
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by sunriser431 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:42 pm

harry wrote:Gud pm!

Hi! I work with a small water district in Mindanao. My probblem is we cannot create a BAC in our office since we only have five planitilla personnel including the General Manager and the Bookkeeper, which I heard is not qualified to be BAC members. At present, we procured through canvassing/requesting price quotations from at least three suppliers. We often purchase service connection materials such as pipes and fittings amounting to not more than P250,000. Are we violating RA 9184? What are the specific sanctions for not observing such RA? For us small water districts, I think competitive public is impractical. Where can I find the list of commonly used goods that are available at the DBM-PS? i WAS NOT YET able to atttend seminar on RA 9184 due to our very limited funds, so my apology. Please give advice! Thanks!
Welcome to the Forum Harry
For Local water District I believe you are being regulated by PD 198, maybe you could ask/seek assistance from LWUA,the contact numbers provided in the website.
Additional information click this linkhttp://www.lwua.gov.ph/bids/projects_bidding.htm
Hope this might help bounce
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by harry on Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:10 pm

Thank you Sir Jhez and Mr Sunriser,

Soon as our financial position warrants, I'll attend the said seminar. For the meantime, please bear with me. God Bless!
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:29 am

harry wrote:Thank you Sir Jhez and Mr Sunriser,

Soon as our financial position warrants, I'll attend the said seminar. For the meantime, please bear with me. God Bless!

Likewise thanks to you Harry. Smile
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by accounting on Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:17 pm

Can anyone help me solve this.
i work in an LGU. after the election new set of officer won. but due to health reasons the new gov was temporarily incapacitated to discharge its function and the new draft set of BAC members, secretariat, TWG, and inspectorate team remain unsigned. the vice governor take charge as OIC who happens to be the previous Gov-HOPE.until today no BAC unit is inplaced. we now then feel the problem cause by this. can the GSO fill in the vacuum of the BAC unit? who is incharge in the procurement process now?thank you po.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:18 pm

accounting wrote:Can anyone help me solve this.
i work in an LGU. after the election new set of officer won. but due to health reasons the new gov was temporarily incapacitated to discharge its function and the new draft set of BAC members, secretariat, TWG, and inspectorate team remain unsigned. the vice governor take charge as OIC who happens to be the previous Gov-HOPE.until today no BAC unit is inplaced. we now then feel the problem cause by this. can the GSO fill in the vacuum of the BAC unit? who is incharge in the procurement process now?thank you po.

Pending creation of the new BAC, the old BAC should continue to function on hold-over capacity until the new members have been officially designtated. The GSO cannot do the function of the BAC.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by jcolas on Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:47 pm

Under 11.2.6, Rule V of the Revised IRR, the members of the BAC shall continue to discharge their functions until new BAC members shall have been designated. Ergo, habang di pa napipirmahan ung designation ng mga bago, ung luma pa ang may boses sa BAC. Sir RDV is correct also and saying that the GSO can not fill in the vacuum. The GSO or any other personnel for that matter, is just one member of the committee.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:08 pm

RDV @ GP3i wrote:
Pending creation of the new BAC, the old BAC should continue to function on hold-over capacity until the new members have been officially designtated. The GSO cannot do the function of the BAC.

For the purposes of discussion let us propose one argument:

This provision is only true during the incumbency of the appointing HOPE (i.e. on the second and third year of the term). In case of turnover of newly elected officials, the BAC, being co-terminus with the HOPE have permanently ceased to be BAC members and the need for the new HOPE to mandatorily create a BAC takes power. This may or may not hold on the Secretariat (depending if there is an organic office created for the sole purpose of being the BAC Secretariat). Hence, following that the HOPE is not the HOPE or the HOPE had already his/her term expired, continuous exercise of function is in question.

Smile
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:30 am

engrjhez® wrote:
RDV @ GP3i wrote:
Pending creation of the new BAC, the old BAC should continue to function on hold-over capacity until the new members have been officially designtated. The GSO cannot do the function of the BAC.

For the purposes of discussion let us propose one argument:

This provision is only true during the incumbency of the appointing HOPE (i.e. on the second and third year of the term). In case of turnover of newly elected officials, the BAC, being co-terminus with the HOPE have permanently ceased to be BAC members and the need for the new HOPE to mandatorily create a BAC takes power. This may or may not hold on the Secretariat (depending if there is an organic office created for the sole purpose of being the BAC Secretariat). Hence, following that the HOPE is not the HOPE or the HOPE had already his/her term expired, continuous exercise of function is in question.

Smile

I beg to disagree to the proposition of engrjhez. The BAC members are not co-terminus to the HOPE, being the appointing authority. There is nowhere in the law, IRR, or other GPPB issuances which says that the BAC is co-terminus with the HOPE.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by accounting on Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:23 am

what if the members of the BAC are moved out of thier official station, i mean they are floated, can they still exercise the hold over capacity?
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by accounting on Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:24 am

can the administrator, a co-terminus employment holder become the GSO head designate?
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by jcolas on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:21 am

For the purposes of discussion let us propose one argument:

This provision is only true during the incumbency of the appointing HOPE (i.e. on the second and third year of the term). In case of turnover of newly elected officials, the BAC, being co-terminus with the HOPE have permanently ceased to be BAC members and the need for the new HOPE to mandatorily create a BAC takes power. This may or may not hold on the Secretariat (depending if there is an organic office created for the sole purpose of being the BAC Secretariat). Hence, following that the HOPE is not the HOPE or the HOPE had already his/her term expired, continuous exercise of function is in question.


The provision that I hope Sir engrhez is referring to is Section 11.2.6 which discusses the term of office of the BAC in a local government. If and when, their is a change of HOPE, this provision of the law will still prevail; the old BAC shall continue to exercise their function unless the new HOPE creates a new BAC who shall serve only for the unexpired term of the old BAC. Now if the New HOPE would like to maintain the services of the old BAC, that is still in order as who can question the discretion of the HOPE as long as it is not contrary to any provision of the GPRA.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by jcolas on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:34 am

what if the members of the BAC are moved out of thier official station, i mean they are floated, can they still exercise the hold over capacity.

Accounting, when you said the members of the BAC are moved out of their official station/floated, the members, in simple terms are removed from their position, the reason for which they were designated as members of the BAC. In that case, they are no longer members of the BAC and that the HOPE is obliged under law, to come up with new members in order not to derail the smooth operation of the agency.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by jcolas on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:44 am

can the administrator, a co-terminus employment holder become the GSO head designate?

That question can be very well answered by the CSC, but in my humble opinion, the HOPE or in this case, the Appointing Authority has a very wide latitude of discretion, so that if he believes, appointing or designating the administrator as the GSO is to the best interest of the service, then he can do so.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:31 pm

RDV @ GP3i wrote:
I beg to disagree to the proposition of engrjhez. The BAC members are not co-terminus to the HOPE, being the appointing authority. There is nowhere in the law, IRR, or other GPPB issuances which says that the BAC is co-terminus with the HOPE.

Prelude: "If the law does not distinguish, we should not distinguish"

This is actually the statutory principle RDV is referring. I just like to clarify muna that this is not a proposition where I would stand. The "proposition" was presented for "discussion" and "argument" purposes only.

Now suppose we try to tickle our minds further for LGUs. Suppose the Chairman and the Vice Chairman both happen to be co-terminus. In a BAC composed of five (5), they do not constitute a quorum. Considering that there is a newly elected LCE, how can the remaining BAC continue to exercise their function where there is still no appointment or renewal yet? Smile
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by accounting on Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:43 pm

This is the scenario. Naturally upon the assumption of the new set of officials, the BAC members are already vacant. However, the old BAC unit is given a month extension or while waiting for the designation of the new set of BAC unit. On the early days of august some members of the BAC and some personnel were reassigned to the farthest place of the city. The new draft set of BAC unit remain only a draft after the extension and until today because of the temporary incapacity of the new HOPE. The vice gov. Who is the previous HOPE took over during the mid of august and recalled the reassignment of the personnel and BAC members. No new designation is given. Can the old BAC unit still be used at this point.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by RDV @ GP3i on Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:57 pm

engrjhez® wrote:
RDV @ GP3i wrote:
I beg to disagree to the proposition of engrjhez. The BAC members are not co-terminus to the HOPE, being the appointing authority. There is nowhere in the law, IRR, or other GPPB issuances which says that the BAC is co-terminus with the HOPE.

Prelude: "If the law does not distinguish, we should not distinguish"

This is actually the statutory principle RDV is referring. I just like to clarify muna that this is not a proposition where I would stand. The "proposition" was presented for "discussion" and "argument" purposes only.
Okey, got it, engrjhez, it was not a proposition, it was just for purposes of discussion. My bad!

engrjhez® wrote:Now suppose we try to tickle our minds further for LGUs. Suppose the Chairman and the Vice Chairman both happen to be co-terminus. In a BAC composed of five (5), they do not constitute a quorum. Considering that there is a newly elected LCE, how can the remaining BAC continue to exercise their function where there is still no appointment or renewal yet? Smile

If the BAC Chairman and Vice-Chairman are co-terminus and if the BAC is composed of 5 members only, you are left with only 3 members. If there are Alternate BAC members the problem could have been solved. If there are none, there is a need to immediately complete the BAC, otherwise, procurement will be affected since they cannot procure until the BAC is made complete. In that case, you have to impress upon the HOPE to immediately make designations, otherwise, the procuring entity cannot really proceed with its procurement activities.
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Re: Creation of BAC

Post by jcolas on Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:34 pm

To Accounting: If the HOPE, who in this case, is the newly elected governor is on leave and was unable to designate the new members of the BAC, then the old BAC has to go on their jury duty as the BAC. Please refer to Section 11.2.6. The problem is, as you allege, some members of the old BAC have been reassigned somewhere. As what Sir RDV posted, their is no problem here as long as you have alternate members, as they will just take on the function of those members who were reassigned. If there are no alternate members, then your OIC should immediately complete the BAC in order not to derail the smooth operation of your agency.
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