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BAC Honoraria

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BAC Honoraria

Post by hera.duka on Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:58 pm

Hi there. We have just finished the bidding of two projects and we are about to award the winning bidders. We are in the process of giving the BAC Members, BAC Secretariat, and TWG Members their honoraria. However, our agency auditor told us that not all BAC Members are allowed to receive such. Accordingly, only three are allowed to receive it. She was not able to provide me a proof of that. She only told me that their speaker mentioned it during their seminar on the revised IRR of RA 9184. I hope you can enlighten me on this.

Thanks.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:10 pm

Section 15. Honoraria of BAC, BAC Secretariat, and TWG Members subject to dbm issuances.

Please clarify first the basis of refusal of the auditor of not awarding of the honorarium.

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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by hera.duka on Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:43 pm

she based it on their seminar speaker's input: that not all BAC members are allowed to receive honoraria.according to her, only three are allowed to be given an honoraria.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by engrjhez® on Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:32 pm

hera.duka wrote:she based it on their seminar speaker's input: that not all BAC members are allowed to receive honoraria.according to her, only three are allowed to be given an honoraria.

Hi hera.duka,

Please note that "honoraria MAY be given" (at a discretion) and that it is not mandatory. Whether true or not that only three out of "n" BAC members that are entitled to honoraria, honoraria itself is still subject to the discretion of the HOPE. In case it MAY be given, DBM Circular 2004-5 as amended by 2004-5a and updated by 2007-3 shall be the applicable guidelines mentioned by the IRR.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by misty on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:44 am

I am truly amazed, engrjhez!

still awake at this time (11:32 pm?!!)and posting replies.
I appreciate your dedication!

Know what? aside from sir RDV's posts, i also look forward to yours and that of amang1965.

Merry Christmas to all! May 2010 be better for all of us!
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:57 am

hera.duka wrote:Hi there. We have just finished the bidding of two projects and we are about to award the winning bidders. We are in the process of giving the BAC Members, BAC Secretariat, and TWG Members their honoraria. However, our agency auditor told us that not all BAC Members are allowed to receive such. Accordingly, only three are allowed to receive it. She was not able to provide me a proof of that. She only told me that their speaker mentioned it during their seminar on the revised IRR of RA 9184. I hope you can enlighten me on this.

Thanks.
Hi hera.duka, welcome to the forum. From your statement, I suppose the BAC Secretariat and TWG members having no problem, however for the BAC members please expound the issues involved. bounce
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by engrjhez® on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:28 am

misty wrote:I am truly amazed, engrjhez!

still awake at this time (11:32 pm?!!)and posting replies.
I appreciate your dedication!

Know what? aside from sir RDV's posts, i also look forward to yours and that of amang1965.

Merry Christmas to all! May 2010 be better for all of us!
Thanks for the compliments (considering you haven't seen my 2am reply yet, Smile ) and Merry X-mas too!.

As 'sunriser' raised, can you please elaborate the positions of those BAC members that you mentioned 'not entited to honoraria?'

Very Happy
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by msm326 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:04 am

Good day.....
We must all be reminded that honoraria is not mandatory....perhaps you can expound your thoughts why they had come up to an opinion that only three can be given honorarium...On the second thought, for a particular project to be entitled for honoraria , project must be completed (that is our common practice) already and not after the bidding...I don't know about others , upon perfection of contract?
happy CHRISTmas
msm326 Very Happy
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by Niwram on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:54 pm

The amount necessary for payment of honoraria and overtime pay authorized under BC No. 2004-5a dated October 7 2005 shall be sourced from the following:

3.1.1 Collections from successfully completed procurement projects limited, however, to activities prior to awarding of contracts to winning bidders:

• Proceeds from sale of bid documents;
• Fees from contractor/supplier registry;
• Fees charged for copies of minutes of bid openings, BAC resolutions and other BAC documents;
• Protest fees; and
• Proceeds from bid security forfeiture.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by Guest on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:15 pm

Maybe the right question is,
Is it right to give honoraria to selected BAC members?

I believe that if one member is given, then all must receive despite the fact of the discretion given to procuring entity. (presuming all of the members are present in the competitive bidding acting as BAC members)

Such acts may give rise to discrimination under labor, human rights and other laws.



lol!

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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by sunriser431 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:40 pm

WormaixJr wrote:Maybe the right question is,
Is it right to give honoraria to selected BAC members?

I believe that if one member is given, then all must receive despite the fact of the discretion given to procuring entity. (presuming all of the members are present in the competitive bidding acting as BAC members)

Such acts may give rise to discrimination under labor, human rights and other laws.
lol!
or maybe only regular members are entitled, provisional members not included. Peace to all BAC members lol!
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by hera.duka on Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:45 pm

hi. the issue really is: is there a limit as to the number of BAC members who are entitled to an honorarium?.... all of them gave their best effort during the bidding process.
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BAC honorarium

Post by fe a. araya on Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:53 pm

To hera.duka, perhaps your Auditor or whoever was their speaker based their statement of allowing only 3 BAC members to receive the honorarium on the word "may" be paid. But this is supposed to be the prerogative of the HOPE per recommendation of the BAC. I can't find that provision of allowing only 3 in BC No. 2004-5A, neither in previous BC (unless there is another amendment to BC 2004-5A)

In our agency, our BAC Chair issued an internal guideline re entitlement to the honorarium, that is, to be able to claim the allowable amt of honorarium, a member shd have attended all the bidding activities (from pre-procurement conf, pre-bid, eligibility check/opening of bids) otherwise, he/she will only paid proportionate amt equivalent to the no. of times he was present. This way, it would be fair to those who religiously attended the bidding activities. No attendance, no honorarium.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by fe a. araya on Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:08 pm

Also, may I add that the guidelines does not limit the grant of honorarium to regular members only. It provides that Chair and members of the BAC & the TWG, and even the BAC Secretariat are entitled to such. Provisional members are members of the BAC as provided for in the IRR. It's difference from the regular members is only in its representation. Sec. 11.2.2 provides that:
(d) Provisional member is an officer who has technical expertise relevant to the procurement at hand, and to the extent possible, has knowledge, exprience and/or expertise in procurement.
(e) A representative from the end user unit who has knowledge of procurement laws and procedures
Both (d) and (e) varies, hence provisional while regular members are just that, regular . But provisional members are part of the required "at least five (5) but not more than seven (7) members to the BAC.." Hence, they are likewise entitled to BAC honorarium
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by hera.duka on Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:34 am

hi fe..thanks much.
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BAC honorarium

Post by fe a. araya on Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:14 am

You're welcome, hera.duka and Merry Christmas! Hope to meet you in person someday.
To msn, I agree that the payment of honorarium is for "successfully completed procurement projects" per Sec. 5.1 (Guidelines) of BC 2004-5A but 2nd paragraph of same provision clearly defines "A procurement project shall be considered successfully completed once the contract has been awarded to the winning bidder." So I think waiting for the project to be completed is an agony to the BAC members (hehehe, imagine if the contract duration is 1 yr or 3 yrs). Baka retired na ung member di man lang naka tikim ng pinaghirapan sa BAC (Peace!).

In our agency, as soon as the BAC Resolution and Notice of Award is approved by the HOPE and received by the winning bidder, we immediately prepare the payroll for the honorarium. All members are included (depending on their attendance),and all members of the TWG and BAC Secretariat have their share of the blessings from th BAC. Kaya happy ang lahat, kung kunti nareceived ng ibang members, no complaint because our guidelines and criteria are clear to them. I hope this info will be taken positively.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by amang'65 on Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:39 am

This is actually what i raised during one seminar on RA9184. why is the granting of honoraria based on every sucessfull bidding only, when, whether failed or sucessfully ang bidding, both equally naman na nagtrabaho tayo? kaya dapat ang granting ng honoraria ay based on every bidding conducted whether failed or sucessful.

pero ang sagot ng speaker namin, she will raise it daw during their regular meeting.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by fe a. araya on Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:41 am

Good point, amang1965. Kampi talaga tayo. Yan din ang query ko noon. Kasi kahit na nag failed bidding, we went to the usual process and all stages of bidding until we reached the "failed bidding" stage. Although, we can claim honorarium for negotiated procurement as a result of the failed biddings. I hope the GPPB can consider this.
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:02 pm

In my opinion the procurement project shall be considered successfully completed once the contract has been awarded to the winning bidder, In doing so there is sense of accomplishment for which the BAC has achieved, otherwise if the procurement project is a failure, will this be rewarded? and pay honorarium? The intention of the guidelines for implementation only, no more no less. Peace bounce
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by amang'65 on Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:16 pm

sunriser431 wrote:In my opinion the procurement project shall be considered successfully completed once the contract has been awarded to the winning bidder, In doing so there is sense of accomplishment for which the BAC has achieved, otherwise if the procurement project is a failure, will this be rewarded? and pay honorarium? The intention of the guidelines for implementation only, no more no less. Peace bounce


there is no problem with the guidelines as to its granting of honoraria because it should be based on every successful bidding, but what we are seeking here is for consideration of granting honoraria on a per bidding basis, because the point here is of our extended functions whether successfull or not ang bidding and besides both successfull or not still there was an accomplishment yung nga lang hindi successfull and bidding, there are instances kasi when failed bidding does not prosper to a certain method of procurement - it ended as failed. kaya pati sana yun counted, heh.he. Very Happy
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by sunriser431 on Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:18 pm

amang1965 wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:In my opinion the procurement project shall be considered successfully completed once the contract has been awarded to the winning bidder, In doing so there is sense of accomplishment for which the BAC has achieved, otherwise if the procurement project is a failure, will this be rewarded? and pay honorarium? The intention of the guidelines for implementation only, no more no less. Peace bounce


there is no problem with the guidelines as to its granting of honoraria because it should be based on every successful bidding, but what we are seeking here is for consideration of granting honoraria on a per bidding basis, because the point here is of our extended functions whether successfull or not ang bidding and besides both successfull or not still there was an accomplishment yung nga lang hindi successfull and bidding, there are instances kasi when failed bidding does not prosper to a certain method of procurement - it ended as failed. kaya pati sana yun counted, heh.he. Very Happy
So there you have it, well taken amang1965 hopefully the DBM is reading this forum. Smile
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by amang'65 on Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:50 pm

sunriser431 wrote:
amang1965 wrote:
sunriser431 wrote:In my opinion the procurement project shall be considered successfully completed once the contract has been awarded to the winning bidder, In doing so there is sense of accomplishment for which the BAC has achieved, otherwise if the procurement project is a failure, will this be rewarded? and pay honorarium? The intention of the guidelines for implementation only, no more no less. Peace bounce


there is no problem with the guidelines as to its granting of honoraria because it should be based on every successful bidding, but what we are seeking here is for consideration of granting honoraria on a per bidding basis, because the point here is of our extended functions whether successfull or not ang bidding and besides both successfull or not still there was an accomplishment yung nga lang hindi successfull and bidding, there are instances kasi when failed bidding does not prosper to a certain method of procurement - it ended as failed. kaya pati sana yun counted, heh.he. Very Happy
So there you have it, well taken amang1965 hopefully the DBM is reading this forum. Smile


Merry Christmas there down south sunriser, peace be upon you. Very Happy Very Happy padala naman ng yellow fin dito para may maihaw sa Christmas.
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BAC Honoraria

Post by fe a. araya on Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:36 pm

Can the DBM also look into the possibility that the sale of bid dos, fees, etc from where the BAC honorarium is taken, can also be the source of supplies and materials for the use of the BAC secretariat?
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by engrjhez® on Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:34 am

fe a. araya wrote:Can the DBM also look into the possibility that the sale of bid dos, fees, etc from where the BAC honorarium is taken, can also be the source of supplies and materials for the use of the BAC secretariat?

It was actually part of the circular (DBM BC 2004-5 as amended by 2004-5a). Dati nga 50-50 (sa BC 2004-5), tapos pwede na i-100% for honoraria on BC-2004-5a. Nevertheless, all unused portion of BAC's income shall be forwarded to the treasury to become part of General Fund (in case of LGUs) for the next budget year or pwede rin sa Supplemental. Since the BAC (Sec) is not a regular office, it can only get supply allocations from another regular office (such as Mayor's Office for LGUs) unless otherwise the Annual Budget specifically identifies office supplies exclusive for the BAC (Sec) subject to approval of sanggunian ordinance.

I wonder, however, that some auditors (COA ) allows the use BAC's income to expenses other than payment of honoraria? Anyway, just asking...Very Happy
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Re: BAC Honoraria

Post by amang'65 on Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:34 pm

engrjhez wrote:
fe a. araya wrote:Can the DBM also look into the possibility that the sale of bid dos, fees, etc from where the BAC honorarium is taken, can also be the source of supplies and materials for the use of the BAC secretariat?

It was actually part of the circular (DBM BC 2004-5 as amended by 2004-5a). Dati nga 50-50 (sa BC 2004-5), tapos pwede na i-100% for honoraria on BC-2004-5a. Nevertheless, all unused portion of BAC's income shall be forwarded to the treasury to become part of General Fund (in case of LGUs) for the next budget year or pwede rin sa Supplemental. Since the BAC (Sec) is not a regular office, it can only get supply allocations from another regular office (such as Mayor's Office for LGUs) unless otherwise the Annual Budget specifically identifies office supplies exclusive for the BAC (Sec) subject to approval of sanggunian ordinance.

I wonder, however, that some auditors (COA ) allows the use BAC's income to expenses other than payment of honoraria? Anyway, just asking...Very Happy


i suggest we refrain from calling sale of bid docs etc as an income, because it is suppose to merely defray government expenses. Very Happy
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